Rodchester

Forrest_m, That is what I thought you were saying, my brian was just not working too well at the time. When you said something about Rainer not being alpine style. It seemed to counter what you were saying, so I just asked for clarification. At the time it was not so apparent to me that you meant the siege description of the rainier expedition in an earlier posting. My brain-cramp. sorry and no offense taken...

forrest_m, Are saying that you must do a traverse to be an alpine ascent? Or am I just not clear on what you mean when you say, the above rainer expedition example is not alpine? Regarding off topic replies, I simply asked what he meant by alpine style. His title was "Alpine style," but then he asked about a single push. This set off a debate, and a healthy one at that over what an "alpine ascent" is. Sorry if the group got off topic. I should have started a seperate thread, but I was trying to clarify what he was asking. [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 06-12-2001).]

ScottP, Where can I find some resource, i.e. very experienced and highly regarded alpinist, recognized liturature, recognized organization, etc. that redefines "ALPine style" to your definition. Per Se...no. Per ScottP...yes. Seriously, you are welcome to your own definition. No one expects every climber to agree on everything. But when you ask a question or base an answer on your own definition, it will simply confuse those you are communicating with. No one else has agreed with your definition. Not that that always makes you wrong, I am just saying take a look and listen to others on this thread and other resources. Call up one of the guides at RMI, Mountain Madness, or AAI and see what they say. Who knows maybe they changed the definition and everyone else on this thread has been so busy climbing, we forgot our style of climbing.... Either way good luck,

ScottP, So I guess when Charlie Fowler and Christine Boskoff climbed Shishapangma last year in "alpine style" not using any "moving" camps or fixed line but made two bivys, they weren't actually climbing alpine style....hmmmmm. I guess all of the greats, Rienhold Messner, Scott Fisher, Carlos Buhler, Mark Twight, and the like will have to rewrite their books and traditions. I'll get a hold of them ASAP. Now, I've said, and say, this somewhat tongue and cheek. I don't want to come off as arrogant here, but think about the term itself and then think about its application. When climbing really took off in Europe in the ALPS (get it) a style of climbing developed (long time ago 150 years ago). That was, to them, the only style. When they began to take on huge peaks in the Himalaya, (1900-today) they had to change their style/tactics. Soon there developed two main styles: expedition and ALPine. They began to call it ALPine style because it was the style they used at home...in the ALPS. (Seems so clear now) It has been called this, "ALPine Style," for years and years and years. See Maurice Herzog in the 1950s attempting alpine style ascents in Hinalaya. See ealry ascents in the Tetons and Wind Range referred to as ALPine ascents. The advance in equipment and training as well as access has allowed climbers to climb routes and peaks in alpine style. (We even have a local guide service called Alpine Ascents International). Now-a-days: if you are fixing rope you are not climbing alpine style; if you are using fixed facilities or pre-cached gear you are not climbing alpine style; if you are hualing/ferrying loads you are not climbing alpine style; if you are stocking high camps you are not climbing alpine style; if you are aiding you are not climbing alpine style. Of course many of these general rules are open to challenge. Many cutting edge "ALPine style" ascents invlove some AID sections. Questions arise about use of porters into a basecamp, etc. But the general rule is that the route is climbed in a straight shot/line by the climbers with out aid, or retreat, or having to stock higher camps. Lately a very select few of true hard core alpinist have been taking it to the next level by climbing routes in a single push, stopping only for food and water. No bivy. Put simply: myself and everyone I know climbing locally climbs "ALPine style." I can't honestly say I have seen others climb any other style on Rainier. (Besides the schools teaching "expedition" style for use on big mountains) Although a cogent argument can be made that the use of the hut and other facilites at Muir makes it no longer "ALPine style." The counter to that is...yeah right...have you ever climbed in the alps...huts everywhere. Anyway...have a nice day.

What do you mean by in a single push? I know many people who have done it in a day, round trip non-stop. Chad Kellog did it two seasons ago in just under 6 hours round trip, via DC route. Many have done Liberty Ridge in a day. Last year even Ptarmagin Ridge went in a day. In my experience apline styple does not mean in a single day, but means that you do not use moving camps. Put simply, everyone does Rainier apline style. If conditions are good, the Furher Finger is widely considered to be the most direct line and is the home to most of the speed ascents. Hope that helps..... later

I have been to the area around Artisonraju from the NE, in the Cordillera Blanca of Peru and although there are some similarities, I do not think it is that much of a resemblance. I have taken some photos, looking at one now, from the summit of Pisco and I see the basic lines, but no real shelf or even that close comparision. There are hundreds of mountains that could have provided the inspiration. It fucking hollywood anyway...

If you want rescue insurance join the AAC. I belive it is free with your membership. It is good for stateside rescues below a certain altitude. I think 20,000 feet. I also think it only covers costs not covered by something else. Forceing rescue insurance is a bad idea. If you want it get it for yourself. Mandatory recue insurance will only cause more idiots to take unclaculated risks, because a rescue would be mandatory. They know someone will come and get them. Presently the Park Service/Forest Service does not have a duty to rescue anyone. ------------------ Have a nice day.

The photo was taken in the parking lot at Vantage. I took it. The rock/bolt came off a route (can't remember) on sunshine wall in late summer/fall of 1999. It is my understanding that the rock/bolt was not taken off, but actually failed. I was not actually there when this occurred, so I cannot be sure. There was a note attached to it. If I recall correctly it described the failure and stated no one was seriously hurt. It went on to say something like, be careful what gear you trust, even bolts. The girl shall remain nameless....and she is shacking with some guy. So sorry. I'd say it is Charlie's imagination that is stalking him...hahaha, kidding. ------------------ Have a nice day. [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 06-01-2001).] [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 06-01-2001).]

May 29, 2001 By Keith Eldridge Four Stranded Climbers MOUNT RAINIER - Six rescuers helicoptered in from Fort Lewis have reached four stranded climbers on Mount Rainier. The four men appear fine, officials said after the 1:45 p.m. meeting Tuesday. They became stranded only after losing some of their climbing gear to an avalanche on Monday. The men wear to use some of the rescuers' gear and climb to the summit, where a helicopter was to pick them up. Weather was deteroriating, however, and the other option was to climb down rather than up. Windy, Icy The climbers became stranded when an avalanche wiped out their return route a few hundred feet below their position on Liberty Ridge. That's on the north side of the mountain above 13,000 feet. The high-altitude chopper -- known as a Chinook -- had trouble landing below the party due to high winds and icy conditions, so the chopper landed on the summit and the rescuers climbed down to the men. Spokeswoman Maria Gillett says the group of climbers called for help about 8 p.m. Monday and said they had been stranded by an avalanche on Liberty Ridge. Gillett says there were no reports of injury, but the group was pinned down by the weather. All of the climbers are from the Seattle area.

What is the latest word on the four guys on Liberty Ridge awaiting rescue?

Alpine K...what do you mean by the north cascades section?

Anyone been up to Shuksun to do the Sulphide Glacier recently? If So how is road in? Snow on road at all? Route/snow conditions? ie is trial still snow covered, and to what point? what is gully near summit like, snow wise? thanks

has anyone been up to Shuksan via the sulphide this season? If so how is the road in to the trialhead? Is it open, free of snow? Is it good shape overall, like for a car instead of a truck? Anyone been on route? How is the gully, snow filled? Thanks for the beta!!! ------------------ Have a nice day.

? ------------------ Have a nice day.

The biggest thing about boots is fit, both on your foot and your use. Someone can talk all day long about how great a boot is, or how high-speed it is, if it does not fit, it is junk. Simple as that. The hardest part is really gauging the physical fit of a mountianeering boot without spending a year breaking it in. Assuming you want to go with a general purpose leather mountianeering boot here are a few recommendations to check out. LaSportiva: Makalu and Eiger I am pretty sure that LaSportiva does not make the Karakorum any more. I think it has been replaced by the Eiger. Not sure. The Makalu is fine for basic stuff. People seem to either love, or hate this boot. I have known many that have hated it. It can become a very soft boot very quickly. Which is good on long approaches, but can suck other times. If it fits, it fits. Montrail: Moraine, Mazama, and Couloir The Moraine is a great all around boot, but does not have a front bail. So if you have either old fashioned strap ons or a new-matic style binding you would really like this boot, again assuming fit. The Mazama is old school cool look with new technology. A very good friend of mine returned his Makalus for the Mazamas and loves the Mazamas. He feels they way out perform the Makalu, but unto each thier own. Couloir is a full blown mountainering boot. It can be, and will remain, a bit stiff for the long ass approaches but it will perform better on the more technical routes. Tecnica: Vetta-2, Peak, Wind River, Ascend Bio-Flex They make a wide range of boots. I have used a few pair of Tecnicas and been very happy with the fit, comfort, durability and overall performance. The Vetta-2 is a good medium duty mountianeering boot, you can still do the long ass approaches in it and they do fine on moderate alpine ice. I have an older version and have worn the to traverse the Wind River range three times, climb the NW peaks, and climb the mexican and ecudorian volcanoes. Four seasons of use and abuse and the are still climbing just fine. The Ascend is a light and fast kind of boot. Probably not the best when it comes to the heavier duty mounataineering tasks. There are many more out there, make sure it fits your foot and your use. Not someone else's!!! Good luck and climb safe. ------------------ Have a nice day. [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 05-03-2001).]

Kautz ------------------ Have a nice day.

Ditto on not needing mountainering boots for the top section. It is easy and very short.

When you need a GPS, you need to stay at home. Map, compass, instinct, and experience are far mopre accurate than a GPS, for climbing anyway. 2 cents.......

And still...snowmobiles suck. ------------------ Have a nice day.

Maybe take a look at the BD snowpack. It is very beefy and the fabric will take a beating, it has tool tubes and a crampon pouch. Good all around apline pack, a bit heavy. i have used the Khamsin on occaision and really liked it, lightweight and simple.

Griff, Degres are hard to beat for the money... JIMI, I actually tested the Tecnica altitude a couple of years ago. It was an uninsulted version. I really liked the overall performance. At the time they had a severe problem with the sole delaminating. However that has been fixed. I would say the insulated version essentially replaces plastics for all but the coldest climates. Good for the volcanos, ice-climbing, etc., but not really for expeditions or true winter mountaineering. Overall a good bit, a bit a a niche application boot that CAN be stretched to do other things. On my foot Tecnica builds the most comfortable boots. Good luck ------------------ Have a nice day.

I have seen many people, the wife included, climb steep water ice in the degres with no problem. The bigest difference you will find between the boots is the warmth. The degres are fine for most anything around the cascades and SA. The Invernos have a reputation, earned, for being one of the warmest boots, next to the Artis Expedition that is. Degres are also more economical than the Invernos. If you are Cascade kind of guy with summer approaches, degres are a good choice. Though by July and through September you will want your leathers back. Both are very good boots. Good luck...

and still...snowmobiles suck. ------------------ Have a nice day.

And still...snowmobiles suck. ------------------ Have a nice day.

Ok so it sucks that the guy died.....I still hate those sleds, and the mentality of those who ride them. To make it worse Bake is NOT a proper place for them, in my mind anyway. 2 cents..... ------------------ Have a nice day.