Rodchester

I think he did a good job of outlining his trouble with Mtn Tools and am glad he shared it so that i won't use them. I also say that I have had nothing but good experiences with Mountain Gear, or mgear.com. They fix the problem, if there is one.

If I do it I'll post a TR.

Freeman: I thought about doing it that way, but I want to do a full traverse...why? I don't know exactly, just one of those things. Thanks for the input.

Thanks Tod... ...I figure the Dike Chimney should have some snow and still be wet..... What did you think of the West Ridge of Stuart?

Klenke: Thanks for the input.

6, or as he said one group had 7, on a rope would be a bitch to handle even on a relatively flat glacier. As I said above, I agree that is too many on a route like Lib-Ridge. Personally I can't think of ever having more than four on a 50 meter rope on a glacier. But the technique is not in and of itself a bad one as Glasgowkiss seems to asert. Leaving blue bags on the route. I doubt they were locals, but maybe I'm wrong. And Glasgowkiss, I'm no Mountie...never have ben one either. Self taught. Now i guess you'll say that expalins it or some BS.

I am looking for recent beta on snow condition (amount) on Ingals peak, all three summits. I am thinking about doing a traverse of the three summits starting at Ingals Lake and doing the Dike Chimney and East Ridge of the East Peak then the East Ridge of the North Peak and then scramble up the South Peak from the col between the two and down the south side of the South Peak. Any info appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Accidents like the one on Hood are of no comparision what so ever. They have nothing to do with the technigue. On that ground/terrian the technique works, and it works very well.....assuming that the climbers are experienced. The accident on Hood was caused because too many climbers were compresssed into too small of any area and few (if any) had the real experience and training need to self arrest effectively in what is classic self arrest terrain. The slope on which it happened is not steep, and many here on this board have walked down it. The technique works on the right circumstances, with the right people. It is excessively simplistic to say that the accident on Hood is proof that the system doesn't work.

Sloth-man: Simple Simon Assumption that everyone is Mountie. I think some, in fact many, of the posts addressed the issue more or less directly. Mine included. Why the bitterness? Why are you calling people stupid for calling people stupid? If I misread your post, I'm sorry. I won't assume you're stupid.

You are correct Stephan. That is also my point. Its usually not the technigue (SP?) used, but those using it. But I do agree with him that the example of the six tied together on Lib-ridge is not safe, and that the "I'll belay you up" while he simply coiled rope withoput any actual belay is a totally unsafe and crazy way to do it. I bet he hit it on idiot day.

Conditions dictate. The route, the mountain, each can vary wildly depending on the time of year and conditions on that day. I wouldn't assume climbing roped is wrong, any more than climbing unroped is wrong. If you're roped in with your partner and tied in short with coils on easy ground so when you get to an ice section you can quickly uncoil and protect it with either a fixed belay or a running belay...no problem. Protect it, then back to tied in short with coils. (Assuming conditions are right). I do agree that climbing on Hood, and other peaks, with a shit load of inexperienced climbers roped together with no pro can be an accident waiting to happen. But the spot where that accident occured is a spot where being roped together without pro and relying on each other to arrest is standard and VERY doable. It is not steep and self arrest should be easy (Assuming normal snow conditions). It is simply the transition point between glacier and headwall, the bergshrund. The problem isn't that they are using that method, the problem is usually experience, or lack thereof. Comparing what happened on Hood with climbing tactics/style on Liberty Ridge doesn't strike me as a very good comparison. Maybe I'm wrong, I didn't see what you saw. If you have 150 foot out on diffcult ground I would have some gear in. If not, then I'd tie in short with coils. The length of short would depend on the peak/route and conditions. Too much bitterness and chest beating going on here.

I have heard some good things about the Aether. I would look at the ArcTeryx Khamsin 62. Let us know what you decide and why. It is always good to hear what others are thinking.

Isn't it June? In a late snow year? I think that was Wopper's point. This time of year it is chossaval. I went up there once (March) and looked at it too. The weather got shitty so we didn't do it. But we got a decent look at it from our high camp (Before weather moved in) and it was supposed to be in great shape. No, I didn't get on it, but from high camp it just didn't look that great to me. Not very steep or pretty. at least compared to other things in Wash. If I make it back down there in winter, or early spring, I might check it out. But it certainly didn't leave much of an impression on me either. 2 cents

Hey Lummox...what happened to that nice rack you had? I miss it.

And the ones next to obvious gear placements should be chopped. I thought our friendly neighborhood bolt chopper was right on target. My god it's a 5.8? I mean come on. If you can't climb it stay off it. How low on the YDS scale do we go to "make hard climbs easier" We need a bolt chop icon.

at 5.6, gte the smaller one. Also buy the longer one and send it to me.

Ditto

For most PNW mountaineers down is just fine....myself included. Being a weekend warrior, USUALLY only out for a few days, and not likely to wait out storms (bail to the bar) down rocks. Further, it lasts soo much longer than synthetic last. I have never had my down bag get soaked, damp a time or two yes, but never soaked. Sure synthetic is great when you are on trips where it may get wet or climbing in the style and in the environment that Backes, Twight, and others climb. I can't, so I don't, so I use down. It rocks, saving weight and space and letting be carry less with a smaller pack.

Maybe lack of gear/protection/ability to protect?

I have a 3300 ci pack that carries everything I need for two nights. Which covers most trips here in the Cascades. Trick is to go light and leave the crap behind, and to go light by getting lightweight and compressible gear. Lightweight 30 degree down bag for summer, pocket rocket stove, Bibler tent, aluminum crampons, etc. Going light doesn't mean starving, but good gear without any of the crap that sooo many people carry. So pack right and 3000-4000 pack should do everyhting you need locally. If I were buying pack now I would buy the Lowe Alpine Attack 60 or the ArcTeryz Khamsin 62. Good luck and have fun....

Marmot Coulior: Couloir Reg - 0°F • -18°C Our favorite all-round bag; 3+ season performance with a slightly roomier mummy cut. 800 Fill Down - Twilight DryLoft™ Does marmot even make a 40 degree bag? I don't think they do? They make two lightweight 30 degree down bags and I think they make some synthetic bag for sleping in huts and hostels?

Did you look at the Grivel 2Fs with extender bars?

First off, you will not learn a damn thing on RMI's summit climb, or most any other company's summit climb. These climbs are focused on getting a non-mountaineering type to stand on a summit. A one time deal. A ride, no knowledge required. If you actually want to learn mountaineering, and are cool with using a guide service/school, then look into taking a 5-6 day glacier mountaineering course. The 13-day Alpine Climbing courses are the most comprehensive and give you the best bang for your buck. Call Mark Gunglogson at M2: 206-937-8389 Mountain Madness This is not to say that RMI isn't a good operation. But the summit climbs are just that, summit climbs. AAI is also a good company. Call around and get familar with the companies and thier differences. Look closely at what you get for you buck. i.e. Some do not include food, and make you bring and pay for your own food. Some include food in the total price. Keep your focus on learning, not just summiting. Good luck.

His OpEd was well put, simple but direct. On time on target. I'm no enviro nut, but this strikes me as a good fight. Kudos to Metcalf. We need more wilderness, not less.