sobo

Which flap is that? Is that the one where some Latino students at a CA high school hoisted a Mexican flag on the school's flagpole, and a bunch of American students took umbrage with it? Or are you talking about a different flap?

The school banned the banner. Hence the case. But the kids took the banner off-campus. School "control" ends => free speech => end of story.

SCOTUS got this one right, I believe. I believe they did, too, despite the inherent hate contained in their message. I would be interested to know what your students think of the case...

School sponsored? Really? Was it Evergreen? Seriously, if the school sponsored it, then that's their choice and right. It's still First Amendment protected free speech, no matter how you look at it.

Pat, Since I brought it up, throw this one in front of your students and tell us what they say... Should this be allowed at funerals? (FYI, the SCOTUS upheld WBC's appeal in an 8-1 decision in 2008, in Snyder v Phelps)

I'm OK with allowing them all. Cannibis T-shirt: Making a statement of personal belief/opinion. Is it hate speech? No, totally a free speech issue. Don't like it? Get over it. Bong hits 4 Jesus: Off campus, so not affiliated with any institution, just a gathering of citizens. Is it hate speech? No, totally a free speech issue. I don't really know what their intended message and audience are, but so what? If it were on campus without the school's consent, maybe the institution might have something to say about it... @ Jim's comment regarding religious (in)sensitivity: Is the above banner more insensitive than the Westboro Baptist Church numbskulls' banners/signs picketing against GLBTs at funerals? To me, no it's not. Although I intensely dislike and abhor what those WBC assholes do at the services of those being laid to rest (veterans or otherwise), I still find that their douchebaggery is protected under the First Amendment (so did the SCOTUS, on appeal). They're just being incredibly stupid, extremely insensitive, and downright crass to take a funeral and make it a platform from which to broadcast their (hate) message, like that's going to earn them any converts or gain them much support for their "crusade." That insensitivity and stupidity alone, in my view, diminishes whatever message they, or anyone behaving similarly, might be trying to convey. GW poster: Again, making a statement of personal belief/opinion. Is it hate speech? Some might think so, but it really isn't. It's still totally a free speech issue. Although, I do agree with Jim that it's just plain crass. Everybody loves to bash Bush, for any number of reasons. The same can be said of Obama, or any other political personality. They are all subjects (nay, targets) of political cartooning ever since Gutenberg invented the modern printing press. It's all just political opinion. Don't like it? Get over it.

Thank you, Matt! Now I need to figure out why the hell I've been thinking, for the past 15-20 years, that they ascended via Gib Ledges...

Correct, along with Janie Diepenbrock Yep, knew about the student. Do you know what route they climbed to the summit? Something I read somewhere (Challenge of Rainier??) led me to believe that they climbed the Gib Ledges route. Just seem to remember that for some reason...

LOL, was thinking early season? Low snow level? Nah, nevermind. If no one's been up there..... Early season??? Did you READ the thread title...??

Well, that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure. Just so you know, I pondered a bit before asking about the possibility that you could have been in the Enchantments, lest someone come out and bash me severely about the head and shoulders for being so ludicrously stoopid to believe we could have been talking about anywhere other than the Enchantments. Thanks, kurt, I'm off to fix myselfg aother frink...

Level 3??? Khrist, man, you go! BTW, Snow Lake Divide... Were you in the Alpental area or Enchantments? Too damn many "snow lakes" around here...

sobo likes this

Slick edit, kurt. When your post originally said "not on skis" I took that to mean that you were, literally, not on skis. I didn't read it as [not bad at all if] you're on skis. Damn this Engrish ranguage... BTW, what were you doing up there, exactly? Inquiring minds want to know...

I smell a tick-war coming up this winter. Only 23 more days to go before the hostilities begin...

Shit, kurt, what a wallowfest that musta been...

Having skied Thermogenesis under a full moon on New Year Eve a few years back, I can't tell you how much fun it is. And that's important, since the best route on Rainier is the one having the most fun. Were there official timers? And a dog...?

Yah, Bill... whaddarya, new?

Sounds like the basic premise behind the concept of "redistribution of wealth" to me... This redistribution of wealth? The one that's actually happening rather than the rhetorical one that's dragged out any time improving the lives of regular people is mentioned? This relates to the issue of "shared sacrifice" as well. Why are we even discussing squeezing what are really just marginally better off workers when American finance, corporations and wealthy individuals whose incomes grew by leaps and bounds during the great redistribution, are sitting on a cash hoard in the trillions, and are positively thriving in the midst of austerity? Jim caught the drift of my comment. I find it irksome that the WFSE did not even consider a little "shared sacrifice" on everyone's part in order to keep everyone's job. Instead, they flatly said, "No!" to a reasonable request to do that. I don't think that's the kind of representation that I would want in the current economic climate. Guess we'll see how many chairs get pulled away when the music stops...

"I got better..."

Buggah!!!1 [video:youtube]

Really? I guess I'm a little messed up there. I thought he was killed while leading the Evergreen students up the Gib Ledges route. My bad. Mebbe that was their ascent route, before the tradegy...??

Sounds like the basic premise behind the concept of "redistribution of wealth" to me...

Wow, she's a cutie, E-rock! But I see attitude in those eyes... Just warnin' ya. Trust me, not all of us are pervs here...

Matt, yes, the rockfall and other shit coming off Gibraltar Rock was what I was on about. I've heard that it can become quite the bowling alley at times. The only "bowling alley" on the Kautz is turning the dogleg at Hazard, and much of that short-duration exposure to icefall can be overcome by rapping off the wall a little further downhill of the dogleg and scooting across the bottom of the chute to the protection of the ice ridge on climber's right. Doing the rap-and-scoot option puts you further below the blast zone of shit coming off the Hazard Icefall, and you're not in the chute proper at all, but at its bottom end, which can give you a few more seconds of reaction time if evasive maneuvers become necessary. After that, it's a cake walk. I've only seen one small slough/slide on the Kautz above Hazard (done the Kautz a half-dozen times or more), and it was actually pretty far climber's left of the main route, practically on the Success Cleaver route. I've done FF once, and the Thumb once as well. They are quick routes to the top of the Wapowety, sheltered from stuff while you're below the Finger and Thumb proper, and not exposed to shit once on top of the Wapowety (except the odd crevasse), which is why I threw these two routes out there for consideration by JDCH as well. I've never done the Gib Ledges, but it was on my list a while back. Now I'm just an old coot that'll probably never get up it. I just remember reading about Willi Unsoeld's catastrophe there, and the few deaths and other accidents that have occurred on that route (most notably at the big slide) over the past 10 to 12-odd years and figured that maybe that might be beyond the level of fun that JDCH and Co. were up for this weekend. Mebbe I'm just an old, scared fuck now... I tell ya, though... that Nisqualley Icefall route. That looks to be a hoot. I remember when Hannah (Pandora) soloed that a few years back. That was sweet. Whatever happened to her anyway? She drank all my wine at a Rope-Up one year and then took off...

Gib Ledges always has an element of objective danger greater than the Kautz or the Fuhrer routes, IMO. I got the impression from the OP that he was looking to minimize that element. Hence, my route suggestions.