sobo

I'm puzzled by all of this, and I'm just left scratching my head over it all. I'm sorry, but I think I'm going to lose you. That's about as far as I got.

this question still seems to be unanswered so i'll do my best to clear it up. the anchor that was first led to is NOT the top of the first pitch. it is a retro anchor that was placed so the first half of the pitch could be led at 10c with no severity rating. the original anchor is higher and if you lead the first pitch complete you'll have to climb 5.11a r. disclaimer: i was not there when the fall was taken. Well it’s the first pitch now……so that might be the confusion. Sobo might not have known about this lower anchor, there for the confusion….. Thanks Mark. I did not know about the retro-bolting of the anchor, if indeed that is what it is. I seem to recall the route was three pitches when I did it years ago, and they were very long pitches (especially the first one??). It damn near fried me dead. Retro-anchoring would explain a lot, as did Alex's recent PM to me about the distance from the ground to the "second" anchor he was aiming for as he passed the "first" anchor. Thanks alexbaker, markd, and kevbone for clearing up an old man's hazy recollections of a route during his heyday. And a special thanks goes out to Cairns for the Blast From the Past pic of the route, complete with the original Fires. :tup:

Yah, I remember those days. I didn't start wearing a helmet until about 10 years ago. I watched a guy take a decking at Peshashtin Pinnacles in 1999 from the top of Orchard Rock (his write-up is in ANAM 2000, pages 71-72), and our group assisted them before medics arrived (one of our group is an MD). I didn't bring a brain bucket with me that day, since I hadn't started wearing one yet, but after seeing that broken guy and his broken GF/fiance' get hauled out of there, I started wearing me old Joe Brown ever after.

Sure looks like it to me. Complete with the Fires, I see. I did it in the same shoes.

What is a "standard" climbing rope? 50m 60m 70m ??? When I started in this game, 45m ropes were being phased out in the early 1980s. I got a 45m rope (on close-out) as my first rope (started climbing in 1983). Then it grew to 50m in the mid-to-late 80s. Then it grew to 60m during the late 80s/early 90s. It went for 60m for some years. Now within the last several years, "some folks" are buying/using 70m ropes, although I would not say that length is the current "standard" length. I would surmise, as I'm sure many others would, that 60m is the "current standard length" of a climbing rope, simply because most routes are set with that as the upper limit for distance between belays at this time. I'm sure as rope technology improves and weight is reduced and strength/elasticity properties improve, that 70m will become the standard. So 60m is my final answer, Regis.

Thank you, Alex, for joining in the discussion. By climbing up to the second anchors (I'm assuming that they would be the belay atop P2), could you have lowered successfully from there with one rope? Or was your intent to bring up your second at that point as is standard multi-pitch climbing practice? As I've indicated twice before here, it's been over 15 years since I led this climb and I do not recall the pitch lengths and therefore whether or not one could successfully link them into one long pitch with a standard climbing rope. That is all I'm trying to work out here. Since (I assume) that you are the Alex in question, you would now know whether or not this would be possible. Thanks for your response.

I don't need to reread the OP. I have excellent reading comprehension skilz. It does not cover my question. Please see below (with grammatical correction): So my original question remains unanswered. Alex leads the first pitch, then apparently lowers off after setting it up for toproping. His friends TR it, and clean all the gear. At this point, we have the first pitch cleaned of all gear and a TR situation set up. Alex then takes a rack, TRs back up to the first pitch anchor, and then continues to lead, moving into the second pitch. The question remains: Why does he link the two pitches into one? As I stated, it's been over 15 years since I led this climb, and I don't recall the pitch lengths, but is it even possible to link these two into one, and if not, what was he thinking by doing so? Please answer that. Sobo. Sorry you’re not getting it. I believe it is written clear. I will try again. As to the climbers intent….I don’t know. I am not him. But it looked like he was trying to put the rope up on the second anchor. I have no idea if this was premeditated or an after thought after leading the first pitch and lower off. I does look like one rope would get him down…..or maybe he has a 70m rope. Either way it is exactly as I wrote. He top roped up to his anchor and continued passed the anchor and started to place gear…..then the fall. As to the first emphasized phrase: That was all you needed to say the first time around. I got the impression that since you were there and in obvious proximity to Alex, you were privy to the events that caused him to take this course of action. As to the second emphasized phrase: I still don't know what Alex was thinking here. Obviously, neither do you. I wish someone would explain this course of action. As to the third emphasized phrase: Does anyone here know the pitch lengths of P1 and P2 to verify this? In essence, that is my real question: can the two be linked safely with a standard climbing rope? As to the fourth emphasized phrase: Same comment as second emphasized phrase.

I do not need to reread the OP. I have excellent reading comprehension skilz. And your OP does not cover my question. Please see below (with grammatical correction): So my original question remains unanswered. Alex leads the first pitch, then apparently lowers off after setting it up for toproping. His friends TR it, and clean all the gear. At this point, we have the first pitch cleaned of all gear and a TR situation set up. Alex then takes a rack, TRs back up to the first pitch anchor, and then continues to lead, moving into the second pitch. The question remains: Why does he link the two pitches into one? As I stated, it's been over 15 years since I led this climb, and I don't recall the pitch lengths, but is it even possible to link these two into one, and if not, what was he thinking by doing so? Please answer that.

Very nice to see you've uploaded a new avatar pic, C. +5 on this one. And you're most likely correct, Couloir. Any place where they're pulling Guinness properly usually doesn't employ very cute barwenches anyway.

"Pasted" is idiotese for "passed". I never thought of that! I was actually being serious for a change, and never even gave "dubious command of the English language" a consideration. I thought it was some new sporto lingo, like... but figured that was in impossibility. Thanks for clearing that up, Pax and Rudy. Now, if 'bone would answer my original question...

The whole situation could have been made infinitely better (read, completely avoided) by leaving the pooches at home. Off leash anywhere in a public venue (with the exception of an O/L dog park), without the owner immediately present, is unforgivable. I, too, have been decked/attacked by ostensibly "friendly" dogs. I didn't find them nearly so friendly.

This didn't occur to me until now, but this is concerning me: The 2-bolt/QD anchor that Alex fell upon is at the top of the first pitch, yes? It's been about 17 years since I led this beast, and I don't recall the length of P1 and P2, but what was Alex trying to do by continuing on from the anchor at the top of P1 on to P2? Can a single rope reach that far? I do not recall. From the OP, it seems that his second never arrived at the top of P1 to be his belayer for P2. Or did I miss something there? If the rope doesn't reach to combine the two pitches into one, what was he trying to accomplish by carrying onward from the P1 belay without a second at the belay (unless he had a rope of sufficient length to combine the two pitches)? Kevbone- Please explain this phrase you used in the OP: "He pasted the anchor..." I am unfamiliar with this vernacular. Could this be why Alex continued upward from the belay atop P1 without any pro below him? Or a second at the P1 belay? I am having difficulty contriving this scenario in my head.

Excellent report. Love the pics, especially Christine's "permasmile", as Bug put it in an earlier thread (Peshastin Pinnacles). So does Fletch alternate between wearing a helmet and not wearing a helmet while on lead? For a medical professional, I'd like to know his reasoning on that score. And speakling of helmets, love your old Joe Brown there, mark. I gots me a yellow one just like that, and an insulated orange "Fritz" for ice/winter climbing. Heavy as a battleship!

Really? If you didn't, would it be kinda like chewing on aluminum foil all day at work? God I hate it when I do that...

Sure, minx, I think that can be arranged. Keep in mind, tho, that his head may be slightly bruised...

You people have it all wrong. A cell phone is not used to order pizza. It's used to call the barwench to tell her to start pulling your Guinness, as everyone knows it takes at least a full 30 minutes to pull a pint of Guinness properly, and it must be waiting for you only briefly when you arrive to quaff it.

34 inches is the length of your dick. I figured after the hold broke off, you could balance on the head of your manhood until you steadied yerself, then downclimb said manhood safely to the ground, so I did not consider coming to your aid a real emergency situation. Carry on.

Oh please do, just for the six folks that haven't seen it yet.

Huge at Smiff Damn, I want to climb with you. Did he yell "TAKE ME HARD BIG FELLA" as he peeled? Cause I think I'm adding that to my verbal signal repertoire as of today. It's all kinda funny now, bill, since no one died or was permanently maimed, but as that huge hunk o' burning man love was heading my way, I was, shall we say, a might intimidated...

Actually, more like 24 feet. To wit: So if we go with the larger value of 6 feet from Alex's feet to his gear, then add 3 feet to get from his feet to his waist (and the end of the rope to which he is tied), then add the stated 15 feet below the QDs/anchor as the point where he came to rest, the equation looks like this: 6' + 3' + 15' = 24', which also includes any slack in the rope before the fall, belayer inattention, rope stretch, etc. So unlike many a fish story, this one gets smaller as time goes on. I'm not discounting the notion that Alex may have been a might unnerved by such a fall, but to reiterate, 24 feet from start to finish is generally not considered "huge" in this game, whether it involves gear ripping or not. The simple fact of distance fallen is the sole metric. For the record, a month ago I "caught" a leader fall of easily about 20 feet. And when I say "caught", I mean "caught", as in no pro had yet been placed. It was a grounder, except that I placed myself in the path to cushion my partner's impact, as I knew he was coming "all the way home." He bounced once solidly about halfway down, then into my arms, and we crashed to the dirt together. In this instance, would one call this a "huge", "big", or a "moderate" fall? I'd still say it was a moderate fall, using distance fallen as the only criterion. If one wants to add injuries, then I'd have to say it was "pretty big" to "huge", as there was no shaking it off and walking away from it. YMMV. And my partner and I agreed that he would remain anonymous, so don't ask who it was.

Yes, ca 1991. Damned near split me at the genitals and it definitely killed my calves.

I've tried to remain on the sidelines of this one, but... We'd all turn and watch, not because it's something out of the ordinary, but because as climbers (and to a lesser extent, humans) we all have a sense of morbid curiosity. I mean really, does anybody watch NASCAR races other than to see the crashes? Winter- And yes, I am intimately familiar with the "dance of death" that is the exit move of Orange Sunshine. And Developing Arms, and Thriller Pillar Direct (if you don't take the small TCU for the little roof - won't forget that again... ). crimper- And I've had my share of 30-footers, as have a lot of folks here. But they were all on trad lines (you're correct, bolted lines of later generations seldom see long falls such as kevbone witnessed), put up many years ago, and mostly back east at Seneca Rocks, Looking Glass, Whitesides, New River Gorge, etc. I think what most folks are taking issue with in this thread is that a 30-foot fall is not all that uncommon coming from the ranks of climbers who've been doing it a long time, or who predominantly climb older (classic) trad lines that haven't been retrobolted. My pitiful $0.02 to the discussion.

Ba-dum, ching! Another good one!

AR!!!1

And thank dog we got off that previous page with the super-wide pics. I hate scrolling laterally!!!1