nolanr

I thought the rock was nothing but choss there. From what I've seen of the climbing guide book, the routes pretty much entail following a goat trail to the top. It is a beautiful area, though. Watch out for the grizzlies.

I heard a little rumour that there will be an army of about 200 Mountaineers at Ingalls Peak on June 3rd (I think that's the right date). If it's true, don't plan on parking at the parking lot or climbing anything around the south side of Stuart that weekend because the whole area will be overrun.

I love my Montrail Moraines. And they really do keep my feet dry, despite the fact they are leathers. In my little bit of experience w/ rented plastics, they may keep you dry but they're totally uncomfortable.

Getting lost is half the fun...right on. The best day I ever had at Frenchman Coulee (off topic, I know, sorry) we forgot the guide book entirely and spent the whole time eyeballing routes and doing what looked like fun. Never knew the names of the routes or what they were rated and it worked out fine. Not to diminish the importance and usefullness of guide books. I tip my hat to those that put in the time and effort to publish them.

I think several others had it right on, use of the back country and crag areas is increasing, so conflicts between users and number of accidents is going to increase. I've been stuck behind parties from the Mountaineers before, so I understand the frustration. It would be great if each of us could go where we wanted when we wanted without a crowd or waiting line. But that's not realistic. As experienced climbers, we all know areas to go to where it's guaranteed you won't run into anybody's Basic class and in some cases you won't run into anybody period. Those places are harder to get to and take more work, but if you want to be guaranteed solitude and a peaceful climbing experience in this day and age, you're going to have to work extra hard for it. That doesn't excuse anyone's bad manners or lack of understanding of climbing etiquette, but I think we're all just going to have to deal with it or limit ourselves to really remote areas.

I would suspect you already have many basic mountaineering skills if you've spent 15 years rambling around the high country. I would offer caution about who you partner up with if you want to do a climbing aprenticeship rather than a basic course like the Mountaineers offer. Getting partnered up with the wrong person or people could be a huge downer. I guess I don't have a good suggestion on how to hook up with the right people, I was lucky enough to make friends with several good guys that were into climbing and we've learned together the last several years. I agree some of the stuff is intuitive and you can teach yourself (I did). Like 3rd class rock scrambling or kicking steps in snow (as long as it's not real steep and run out). Obviously when you get into more technical rock climbing that involves ropes and pro it's not something you can just start doing by yourself. Hopefully this post will be a good start to finding some climbing partners and good luck.

If you're going to trek across to Cloudy Pass and Cloudy Peak, give yourself lots of time so you don't have to rush. Although it may be buried under snow still while you're there, the upper Lyman Lakes basin is a fascinating place worth exploring in a meandering kind of way. I was there Labor Day weekend last year, no snow on Cloudy Peak, pretty straight forward scramble. If it's clear you'll have awesome views of Dome, Sinister, Bonanza, Glacier, and a bunch of others.

How about this? When you decide to climb a peak, don't look at the Beckey guide, don't look at the Nelson/Potterfield guide, don't put a post on this website for route beta, maybe don't even look at aerial photos in a book. Just go out there, eyeball it, pick out your route, and go try it. Once upon a time, that's what mountain climbing was. Except the approach hikes were 30 or 40 miles or something, depending on how remote the area was. I've done it a few times, not on anything real technical, but it's pretty fun. Not that I'm claiming an FA, but if you don't KNOW that somebody already climbed it that way, and don't read their description of how they climbed it, in your own mind it's still kind of like uncharted territory.

I didn't do the route you're looking at (I came from SE, I think), I scrambled up the side of the mountain from the Chatter Creek trail, but at any rate the rock quality seemed fine ie. not friable and not horrendously greasy. BTW it was mid-October, on one side of the mountain it was mostly bare rock w/ blue skies above, on the other side it was seriously socked in with an inch of rime ice. I've never seen such distinctly different weather patterns, almost different seasons I would say, in the same place at the same time. Pretty cool.

Sorry Jon, I already jumped on him. Point taken.

Somehow I missed the wonderful wisdom Tom Rogers shared with us. Uh, Tom, this is a climbers forum. I don't think you're going to find much support for your "ban all climbers" policy. I really hope you're joking. If you're pissed off because your wonderful photo-op was ruined by a climber hanging on a rock wall or tracked up snow, I have a few pieces of advice: get there earlier, or go somewhere further into the backcountry where it's less likely you'll run into a climber. That makes about as much sense as banning skiers and snowboarders from mountainsides because they leave all those nasty trails behind them and it doesn't look as if no one has ever been there before. If you want pictures of completely untouched places where no human soul has tread before, there's plenty of that in Alaska. But if you show up to click a picture, guess what, it's not untouched by man any more. Sorry to single you out, but you're post doesn't make much sense. Sure, some climbers are rude jerks, some don't practice very good eco-ethics, but to lump them all together and say climbers suck is false and narrowminded. To get to where you were at to take a picture, you probably left boot tracks in the snow. Are your boot tracks somehow better than a climbers boot tracks? If you've ever hiked on a muddy trail (and if you live in the NW you can't avoid it), then you probably left some evidence of your passing that wasn't very sightly. Seems this might be a wee bit hypocritical of you. If climbers are self serving, maybe you are, too. You just want to remove anything that gets in the way of you getting that perfect photo. Like all of those other damn hikers or tourists. If only you were the only one allowed in the Cascades, all of your photos would turn out perfect.

To be objective, it should be noted back country skiers, boarders, and even climbers trigger avalanches as well, they are just as capable of using poor judgement as snowmobilers. With that out of the way, I would prefer no motorized vehicles were allowed in what I would consider "wilderness backcountry" areas, whether that's BLM, Forest Service, National Park, or whatever. I agree with several prior posters that motors seem contrary to the wilderness experience, due to noise, emissions, and relative ease of travel compared to traveling under your own muscle power. But that's just my opinion. As it is there are areas open to snowmobiles, motor bikes, and other kinds of ORV's and there are powerful lobby groups working to defend that right or even expand the areas open to them. I certainly don't advocate open hostilities or causing physical harm to people with differing views on how wilderness areas should be utilized. With our friend Mr. Bush in the White House it might behoove us to not fight against other wilderness users and concentrate our efforts on stopping him from setting U.S. environmental policies back by several decades. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Okay, off my soapbox.

If the Washington Pass area has some characteristics of sport climbing areas, that doesn't mean we have to it push over the edge and turn it into one completely. There are plenty of places in Washington that are thoroughly bolted where you can go if that's your pleasure. I'm curious, isn't there an issue of it being within a National Park. Wouldn't placing permanent pro be less than kosher in the eyes of the Park Service? Or maybe it's outside of the Park, if so my bad. But just my personal opinion, I'd rather there not be anymore added. This isn't Yosemite Valley.

I didn't get bent out of shape by the Washington comment, like I said I was just curious. I noticed he hasn't spoke up about where he's from yet.

I'd suggest a little variety, not just Cascade volcanoes. The possibilities are too numerous to mention. Check out one of the area climbing guide books like Beckey's or Nelson's. Or even check out hiking guides, they can give decent beta on some peaks that are fairly easy scrambles from campsites. Have fun. BTW, what would you recommend in Idaho? I might be out that way this summer or the next.

I can't believe nobody has jumped on unregistered Curt yet for saying nobody in Washington can climb. Care to qualify that statement at all? Are you talking strictly rock climbing, or mixed, alpine, etc., whatever? There's more than a few difficult routes here and plenty of good climbers. Where is it that you hail from where the climbers are so much better? Just curious.

I don't know about the Carbon specifically but I have heard because of the low snowfall many crevasses didn't even fill in this winter.

No, no. You should only take your shirt off when there's lots of hot chicks there watching. Only 8 people is hardly worth it.

All you can eat: the goal is to be unemployed as often as possible. I am very seriously considering ditching my job late summer/early fall and taking some time to road trip and then play around in the mountains locally. I've gotten to do that from time to time, and it seems to be one of those itches I have to keep scratching. Think of it this way: you have most of the rest of your life to work. Keep life enjoyable and do what you want to sometimes. As far as the debate of working for a short time, then quiting and playing, or not working at all, either one works. Unfortunately we all need money, one of the great evils in life, and that usually requires some work here and there. Whatever you decide, have fun.

Lots of good advice, and maybe some that isn't so helpful. WIZMO? I've heard of a Lady J, probably about the same thing. Anyway, I would like to submit the following as an ass-kicking training hike. From Colchuck Lake/Stuart Lake trailhead up to Colchuck Lake is a fairly steep 4 miles, then you get the pleasure of climbing about 2000' in 1 mile above the lake to gain Aasgard Pass. It's near 8000', so you get an idea of what exerting yourself at elevation feels like, and for your troubles you get one of the coolest views in the state. It's all downhill from there exploring the fabled Enchantments Basin.

Sorry, I'm about to go off on a little rant. If you've never climbed before, why are you deciding to do Rainier all of a sudden? Plenty of people have done the same, but that doesn't make it a good idea. If you just want to climb the state's highest peak as a feather in your cap, that's one thing. But if you really want to learn to be a mountaineer, Rainier isn't the place to start doing that. Learn how to use an ice axe and kick steps on steep slopes on some of the lower elevation peaks first. You could also try one of the other volcanoes first, Baker and Glacier Peak are both below 11,000' and Adams is a shade over 12,000'. The difference of a few thousand feet may not seem like much, but it is. I'm sorry to sound negative, but if you're truly interested in becoming a climber, there is a natural progression to follow, and starting with Rainier isn't it. I'm done ranting now.

My advice is, do some training at altitude. I don't think Tiger Mountain really counts. Play around at Paradise, you can drive up to about 5,000'. You can get up to around the same altitude at Hurricane Ridge and can make a pretty easy ascent of Mt. Angeles, about 6500'. The Tatoosh Range (near Paradise) offers several peaks that are 6000'+. There's plenty of other good options, these happen to be easily accesible this time of year. The point is, if you've never climbed or exercised anywhere near 10,000' or more, Rainier is going to kick your butt and you will be hating life. Don't underestimate the altitude, and make sure you start getting acclimated well before the scheduled time of your climb. Enjoy.

This project got cancelled/postponed several times, so I finally went out to do it by myself. It might have been okay if not for the 12+ inches of fresh powder dumped on the area Thurs. and Fri. I wore myself out breaking trail from the west edge of Reflection Lake to the Bench Lake area. I figured I wasn't going to make the climb on Saturday, but trudged the rest of the way to the Snow Lake basin just to take a peek. Kind of scary. Lots of fresh, loose snow on steep slopes. More than I wanted to tangle with, I'll save it for later in the year. I did catch some nice alpenglow on Unicorn and the ridge beside the Stevens Canyon road from my campsite, which made my effort worth while.

There was a fairly major rock slide on one of the faces (south or east, I think) of Adams about 5 years ago for no apparent reason. I can't help but think the geology got rearranged some all over the Cascades due to the 'quake. None of the media coverage I've seen has mentioned anything about the impact on our active volcanoes, we'll have to stay tuned, or better yet go look around this weekend and see if anything looks different.

Nice pictures. I have absolutely got to hike up to the base of Mt. Assininboine and Mt. Robson sometime, those are both at the top of my "to-do" list.