nolanr

I've been using a playtpus for about 1 1/2 years. It's great to temperatures right around the freezing point, after that the tube ices up and it's useless. It does seem to leak sometimes when I'm backpacking and I have my pack compressed a lot. Just the same, I'd rather have a potentially leaky water bladder that can freeze in cold temperatures, because like someone else said it almost guarantees you won't get dehydrated. When I have just Nalgene bottles I don't stop often enough to drink and commonly end up mildly dehydrated.

Don't laugh, but Mt. Pilchuck can actually be pretty interesting during winter conditions. I got blasted off the summit ridge one time by about 30 mph winds and near white out conditions, with wind chill it was well below freezing. You can also make it more challenging by traversing along below the major cliff all the way to the east end of the mountain, then scrambling up fairly steep mixed rock, snow, and brush. But even on the worst day, in the middle of winter, on a weekday, there's almost guaranteed to be someone else out there, so don't go for the solitude.

I beg to differ re: bodybuilders. I knew several in college. They rarely did light weights for high reps. Most of them spent most of their time throwing around insanely heavy weights for low reps. This has nothing to do with the original climbing training thread, so please forgive me. In fact, the training regimens of power lifters and bodybuilders in some cases is fairly similar. The difference is power lifters are training for a functional purpose (ie: a 1 rep max for a given lift) whereas body builders are training for an aesthetic purpose. Getting stronger is not their primary focus, but it is a byproduct as they develop larger muscles. And I also disagree about the size of power lifters. Someone competing in a 140 lb. class obviously wouldn't be very big, but someone in a unlimited weight class would probably be at least 250 to 300 lbs. Power lifters don't have the classic Arnold type of physique, but they usually have large muscles just the same. Look at the "World's Strongest Man" type of competitions they have on TV. Those guys are ridiculously strong, have relatively poor endurance, and are massive, muscular individuals. And now I'm done with that tangent. I totally agree, climbing is done at an intensity level below your absolute threshold for strength. Otherwise, you would do one move, then you would be finished, would have to be lowered off, and grovel on the ground for several minutes while trying to regain your breath while fighting off that urge to vomit and/or pass out. Anyone doubt me, load up a bar and try a one rep squat max and see how you feel afterwards.

When I first started rock climbing about 3 years ago, I was lifting weights fairly intensely 3 or 4 times a week. I haven't lifted weights in at least 2 years. I have seen some decrease in muscular size and strength, but this has not seemed to make any difference whatsoever to me in terms of rock climbing. I think hand strength and forearm strength are the most important factors in rock climbing, specific strength training for other body parts probably isn't necessary. I also agree with the "best training for climbing is climbing" school of thought. Have you ever noticed most great climbers, whether you're talking strictly rock or more generally alpine climbing and mountaineering, tend to be wiry and strong but not particularly big? Having a large body works against you in the mountains (ie. more weight to move upwards), so taking a lot of time to train for power (which tends to develop large muscles) doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Ok, I'm back again. If it is generally frowned upon to do top ropes on ice and take laps, and "real climbers" always do lead climbing, how the hell are you supposed to practice and get good enough and feel comfortable doing leads? It took me a while to be able lead on rock routes. You wouldn't expect anyone to do lead climbing from the day they start. Why is ice different? I guess the whole thing about there being a limited amount of it, and inexperienced climbers tear the route up, just isn't working for me. You were all beginners once, and you probably all sucked at first. So how did you manage to practice and get better without doing any TRing and without tearing up some routes to the chagrin of better climbers in the area? I'm guessing you didn't, so don't hold other beginning climbers to different standards than you held for yourself whenever you first started ice climbing.

Wow, that touched off some strong opinions. I think I left out a few details, so let me fill them in and you can see if it changes your opinion at all. At the time the other party arrived, we were leading. Albeit slowly, since we were not real experienced, but we were leading and we were already there. As far as I know, if you want to be guaranteed to get a certain route, you have to drag your ass out of bed early to make sure you are the first one there. They did not do this. We left Seattle around 6 am and made 2 seperate stops (Bellevue and Ellensburg) to meet up with other members of our party and get some groceries. So by the time we got out by Banks Lake, this would fit no one's definition of early, yet we found the route empty. If it matters at all, I think the formation was called Cable, it was just north of Absent Minded Professor. They checked the route out from the side of the road for a while, then gathered their gear and came up. I think they got to lusting after this route pretty bad, decided they were going to do it, and to hell with us. We switched leaders at one point, when the second guy up reached the previous high point, he began traversing to the right. He left a couple screws in to protect him from a fall. This was about when the other party's leader started. As I said before, their leader started angling right above us fairly quickly. Our lead climber was safe, but our belay station was getting pelted. This is why we moved it. This caused a bit of a zipper effect with our rope. Our first 2 screws were right in the middle of the fall out zone. Our leader eventually went around a corner, then up again. This was well clear of the line the other party was doing to top out on the formation. We definitely weren't "hogging the route." We set up a top rope and our leader lowered off. At this point we had to wait about 45 minutes because we couldn't safely have anyone second the route and clean up the screws we'd placed, due to ice fall from the other leader. When he finally stopped moving, their belayer immediately started heading up. We had a short conversation, I voiced some frustration, he offered to unclip our rope and pull the first 2 screws. We agreed to this. Now we were able to safely take some laps on our top rope, we were clear of their line, and we had no problems for a while. When they came down, they weren't paying any attention to where they came down at, it was right on top of us, and as previously mentioned they sent a lot of rock and ice down at us, without any warning. I saw a huge chunk come down within less than a foot of my best friend. That scared me and pissed me off. This was when I let loose with some yelling and screaming. I'm sure they heard me, but they didn't respond at all. That's about all of it. I realize climbing can be hazardous. No duh, to whichever person suggested I should stay home if I can't handle it. The next day we were at Devil's Punch Bowl dodging chunks of icicles formed under an overhung roof, that were breaking off due to warming temperatures. This is expected and acceptable. Careless climbers above me with no regard to the safety of me and my party is another issue. I find it unacceptable. And I find it a little disgusting that some people seem to think less experienced climbers should feel it necessary to yield to better climbers. Everybody has to start somewhere. Climbing should be fun, it shouldn't be some kind of elitist snobby endeavor. No matter how good you are, somebody is going to be better. Or maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe the next time I'm rock climbing at some crags (which I'm more experienced and better at), I'll make sure to do some boulder trundling when I see some rookies come along, just to discourage them a little bit and introduce them to the hazards of the sport. And I won't yell "Rock!" because it is their responsbility to be alert and wary. Ok, enough said.

I'm new at ice climbing, just went out for the first time. But I've been rock climbing and mountain climbing for several years and would expect the etiquette to be about the same. Am I missing something? I was with a party of 4 at Banks Lake this weekend. After we'd been in an area for an hour or so, a party of 2 came along. They started climbing to our left, but quickly started angling right (towards us, in other words), and eventually were above us. The lead climber sent a barrage of ice right on top of our belay station, without a word of warning. We moved our belay several times, a total of 15 or 20 feet eventually. The other party did a multi pitch climb, eventually we couldn't see them at all. All was well for a while, but when they started coming down, they moved even further right and were right on top of us again. We couldn't move any further to our right. They sent a hellacious barrage of ice and rock down on us, and I never heard them yell "Rock!" or "Ice!" once. We eventually started hollering at them, they rapped down just about on top of our route. One of them acted slightly apolegetic, but also wanted to make it our fault somehow. The other guy wasn't interested in being diplomatic, he just wanted to get down to the road and brag to some buddies of his down there about what a great route he'd led. So I'm thinking these guys were extremely rude and also subjected us to unnecessary danger. Naturally occuring objective dangers I can deal with. Unnecessary dangers from careless climbers hacks me off. If we'd started climbing underneath them, that would make us stupid. But since we were there first and they climbed directly above us, that would make it a faux pas on their part, right? Nobody was hurt, but there were some very near misses. If this sounds like you, try to think about what you're doing a little bit more next time you're out.

Little update. I've got out and about a bit with the new boots, they're working great so far. They're stiff as can be expected, rub the back of my heel, but more comfortable than I anticipated. They've kept my feet drier than any leather I've worn before. Had a pair of step-in crampons on this weekend for ice climbing, and that worked fine.

I've climbed Unicorn in July, kicking steps in snow on the approach, 4th class or low 5th class scramble on the final summit tower. I'm wondering what it's like in winter. Anyone done it? I've been up Pinnacle and Plummer Peak in winter before, so I'm familiar with the Tatoosh Range during winter conditions. I'm looking at doing it with a couple other guys in 2 weekends. Any beta appreciated.

I won't be anywhere near S. America, but you can't go wrong with a name like Nolan.

In my humble opinion, VL was even more ridiculous than Cliffhanger. It was fine though, I laughed heartily from beginning to end. All those new techniques I need to try. Everything has to be done dyno. How about jamming a cam into a crack while on the fly, thousands of feet off the deck? If you're as hot as the French climber babe, it should work just fine. And glacier crevasse rescues? Setting up a z-pulley takes too long. Never mind burying a couple deadman anchors, just shove an axe or two in half hilt, then start hauling people up with no mechanical advantage, like a man, like Chris O'Donnell. I can't help but think that Ed Viesturs has to be embarrassed that his name and likeness is attached to this little project. Yes, Hollywood has done it again.

Maybe Mr. Heston merely set his sights on other alpine destinations like Seven Fingered Jack or Fernow, or even better yet Bonanza Peak. Or he could be wintering down in Entiat Meadows. If you do see him again, watch out, he's probably carrying a loaded firearm.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I ended up getting a pair of Montrail Moraines recently. I haven't really used them yet, so I can't report on performance. They are crampon compatible, have a similar Vibrum sole to the Civetta's I've been using most recently, which are great for rock scrambling. They seem to be more heavy duty, so hopefully they will last longer. Again my primary concern was with durability, not a deficiency in functionality of my last 2 pairs of boots. I did try on a pair of La Sportiva's and I could see the narrow toe box potentially being a problem. Anyway, happy hiking/climbing to all and may your boots keep your feet happy.

I was up there in mid-October (sorry, I only did a walk up on the south ridge) and didn't see Charlton Heston.

I'm not at all in favor of the resort project just outside of Rainier. There may be a few bright spots, however. The resort developers suggested using tour buses to get the guests up to Paradise. While a tour bus is a bad idea on a narrow, windy road like that, it beats having 400 additional cars from the lodge driving up to Paradise every day. And let's get serious, Paradise is already completely overrun with people most of the year anyway. Is this really going to make it that much worse? I am going to take an educated guess that most people who would stay at a resort hotel like this proposed site are not going to be there to climb The Mountain or take a spin around the Wonderland Trail, so they may not get in your way all that much. Yes, it sucks that development continues to happen in areas that really don't need it and $$$ is the driving factor, but at least they're not trying to build something in the park. If you push too hard on issues like this, you can end up creating a lot of resentment by people who actually live in the Nisqually Valley who don't appreciate being told what they can and can't do by people who don't live there. Just trying to give a little different perspective on this one.

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Goodtime. And I beg to differ that most classics are in the .10 range. I would assume classics are the ones that have the most people trying to do them, and whether it's cragging or on alpine routes, I've seen plenty of highly desirable and popular routes that are significantly below .10.

My last 2 pair of boots (Raichle Spirit and Zamberlin Civetta) have been comfy with minimal break in time and I've been pleased with them except I trashed both of them after about 1 1/2 years of useage. Maybe this is purely a function of how many miles I've logged with them on. I figure I average around 500 miles a year of trail hiking plus off-trail rambling, 3rd and 4th class rock scrambling (with a little low 5th class thrown in to make things interesting), and plenty of kicking steps in snow. So I'm curious, any suggestions on an absolutely indestructable pair of boots for travelling on a variety of terrain? And preferably something that won't absolutely destroy my feet during the process of breaking them in.

Coolest scrambles...Del Campo, right on. I've done it 3 different ways, kind of make up my routes when I get up there. Check out Columbia Peak from Twin Lakes. A little more difficult, more exposed than Del Campo, same nice neighborhood. No one rock climb (cragging) has stood out in my mind as the best ever. As for alpine rock routes, I've thoroughly enjoyed every one I've done, hope to do plenty more. SE Buttress of Cutthroat was by far the most challenging and committing I've done.

I did the same route with a buddy in July. It was a great day, except a marmot ate my boots and part of my pack where I left it in the gulley at the beginning of the technical rock climbing. And we got back to Seattle about 3 am and my friend's fiance thought we were both dead and had the sheriff out looking for us. But it was a great climb.