CascadeClimber

No crevasses, no avy danger. In fact, it was colder on Shasta than on Rainier two days earlier. We didn't take a rope. Didn't use one on Casaval, either. It's a personal choice and you should make yours separate of what I did. I've climbed all the volcanoes in Washington, plus Hood, Middle Sister, Broken Top, and Shasta. Happy climbing- -CC PS- We had great weather on Shasta. Two weeks later two experienced climbers died from exposure in a whiteout. Don't underestimate it. [This message has been edited by CascadeClimber (edited 02-25-2001).]

I climbed Shasta at the veru beginning of April last year. It was a joy. The very accessible south side routes were all in fine shape. We intended to climb Casaval, but after looking up and all that snow on the Avy Gulch route we couldn't resist the urge to ski it. We camped at the "lake" and had it our to ourselves, a stark contrast to the summer hordes. We had great cramponing on crisp neve in the morning and skied from the base of the summit pyramid to the car. From the lake to the car the snow was glorious corn, some of the best turns I've had on a volcano. Casaval, which I climbed a few years ago, is a more entertaining climb, but wouldn't ski nearly as well. It is much less challenging, technically, than any of the routes on Rainier Go early, take skis, go high, enjoy. -CC

How about Dynafit TLT4 rando boots for $165? http://www.rei-outlet.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=8000&prrfnbr=4649384

Ray- What about the Grivel Rambocomps? I heard that they climb great and come off real easy like... -CC

MH Altitude: Suck factor high. $50 plus two tubes of seam grip and they still leak like a sieve. I like my $30 Gtex ski gloves better. Don't waste your $$ unless you really are going high. -CC

Hmm, maybe it is just bad karma at Loose Lady? I almost walked away from my Suunto down lower. Both the aluminum frame and the spring are bending. The spring is a bitch to bend back- I have to use pliers. I think the spring catches on clothes and gear and gets bent. I'm going to try the wire gates next trip. -CC

I had a screw come off my Trango "unClipper" Sunday on Loose Lady. I was climbing up the slab and I suddenly heard a screw go falling down. Not good. It seems like they bend too easily and the spring clip separates from the aluminium frame, allowing screws to just fall off. -CC

Just to clear up any potential confusion, and consequential further disparagement of me, I was on It's Only Phair last weekend, I am a Yank, and I was driving a 4Runner. But my 4Runner is gray, not white, I was there Sunday, not Saturday, and I got all of my whimpering, cursing, hangdogging, and hollering for the weekend done on Night N Gale on Saturday. -CC (Cascade Climber, not Canadian Club)

I was actually on Night N Gale. We talked to the Sheep Party after crossing the river, but didn't get any names or see them again. Their car was still at the gravel pit when we left. -CC

Jon- You are clearly very passionate about this issue and that is something that I respect. I don't have a firm opinion yet and that is why I am curious about what people are thinking. Again, I am not advocating bolts every five feet and totally "safe" idiot-proof routes. But I do wonder where the line is. What if the route was originally soloed? Is it then only for soloists? And do you believe that once the line has been freed, then it should no longer be aided? Even with "clean" aid? Should the ladder be removed from the second step now that Anker has freed it? Following that, once the line has been soloed, should fixed gear, including bolts, be removed? I don't think anyone is saying this, but it is a reasonably logical progression to the line of reasoning and illustrates how we want absolute rules until we don't. What about "other" installations, such as memorial plaques and monstrous bolt installations (for the purpose of instruction)? I'm thinking of Lundin in particular. Has that route been desecrated? Maybe we need to start a new thread here, "Ethics"? -CC

I'm enjoying this lively discussion as much because it hasn't deteriorated into a flame-war as for its content. I'm posting this response to try to illustrate how gray an area this is, not because I disagree with the contrary posts. That being said, I guess my point is that words like "improve", "better", "safe", "harder", and "style" are all subjective. Royal Robbins put up many first ascents in tennis shoes. If I repeat his routes in slippers that, in my book, is not the same style: His ascent was more difficult and employed less technology. He also chopped half of a Warren Harding route (the name escapes me) and later wished he hadn't b/c he came to respect the difficulty of the aid line and the work Harding did to place the bolts on lead. Becky put up first ascents for years without the North Cascades highway. Does it improve the style of those climbs to repeat them with the benefit of "highway aid"? And just because someone can climb 5.13 free does not mean that it is easier for them to step into aiders and climb A4 or 5. So how do we define "harder" and "improved style"? What about a 5.13 sport climber establishing a 5.11 route with groundfall potential at every clip? Are all subsequent climbers required to risk death to repeat the route just b/c the first ascensionist felt the route was too "easy" to need "safe" protection? Don't get me wrong here, I don't really want bolts splattered all over the place, either. But I think climbers tend to become very close-minded about the "right" or "proper" way to climb. Usually the right amount of protection is just enough for me to get a buzz without fear of imminent death. Your experience may vary. ;-) -CC [This message has been edited by CascadeClimber (edited 02-12-2001).]

Dane- Thanks again for letting me finish my lead on Loose Lady before you rapped. For the record, how long was three minutes, really? ;-) CC

Following this line of logic, it seems like you would say that today's high-standard rock climbers are spoiling hard aid lines in Yosemite by freeing them, instead of climbing them on aid, like they were originally put up. Or that retrofitting a 1/4" Leeper with a new 3/8" rawl is wrecking the climb because you know the hanger isn't going to fail. If the line was first led with terradactyls, flexible crampons, and Chouinard screws do you use the same? I realize this is a slippery slope, but technology has changed and continues to change climbing. Test pieces of the past become moderate trade routes as our tools become better and our sense of what is possible changes. My two cents- CC

Update: I skied the Alpental slush and rain all day Sunday with these gloves. My hands were dry at the end of the day. The only complaint I have is that they are a little hard to get on with wet hands. Still, this is the best $30 I've spent on gear in a long time. I may even pick up a second pair. -CC

Costco in Issaquah is selling Grandhoe Freeride gloves with a leather palm and a *Goretex Hangtag* for $30. I have no idea how good they really are, but $30 seems like a good deal for GT gloves. -CC

I think you are incorrect about Waite for Spring. And it is Deeping (not Deepening) Wall. Perhaps this will help: http://www.bivouac.com/casbc/18jan01photo1.htm -CC

I was perusing the second Nelson/Potterfield guide last night and noticed that the approach description for The Pencil is a bit on the non-descript side and doesn't seem to match the picture (from the picture it looks to be in the drainage north of Falls Creek). Though I was on Drury last weekend, the clouds prevented us from seeing much of anything from the base of the canyon. Can anyone clarify the approach? Anyone have any recent beta? -CC

I think what Colin is saying is that there needs to be some editorial control so that the reports are limited to true stories of significant merit. If so, I agree. Of course, there needs to be some agreement on the definitions of "true" and "significant". Seems like maybe a board of Northwest climbers could work something out that included an electronic forum and an annual publication. The board would need to be comprised of experienced and respected Northwest climbers. Anyone care to volunteer? Mr. Nelson? Mr. Skoog? Did I see your hands raised? -CC

I guess I'd expect that the other party would be considerate enough to ask if they could climb past and to call out when they knock shit loose. To just climb next to and then over another party without asking is rude and dangerous.

I've climbed it once in early spring/late winter. We were in for the weekend and camped just below the east side of the Castle. We went up to the Castle saddle and traversed the ridge east toward the unnamed point and then south down the ridge toward Unicorn. Near the low point we dropped onto the slope and traversed over until we could start up toward the col west of the summit. The slope up to the col was steep and it was a slog in the fresh powder. It was easy ground from there to the summit pinnacle. I soloed up in a little gully on the south-southwest side, probably 4th class, then belayed my partner up. We were able to make the rap with a 37 meter rope. We skied most the way back to the north-south ridge, and the turns from the col were some of the best I've had in the Cascades. The ridge is longer than it looks. It took us most of an entire day to get there and back from near Castle. The slopes would be a death-trap in bad avy conditions. -CC

Read the fine print folks folks, this is a BIG DEAL. Listen, both proposals specifically state that overnight users leaving from White River or Paradise (except those paying to stay in a hotel), will be required to ride a shuttle bus during peak months, regardless of the parking situation. Same is likely to be true of Mowich. The Carbon river road will be permanently closed as soon as it washes out again. This seems silly to me, given that climbers amount to about 10,000 of the 1.3 million visits each year. Send your comments, via email, to: mountrainiercomments@nps.com Note that if you include your name and address, they will be publicly available. -CC

***Rant Warning - Proceed with Caution*** Okay, I've been through this before, but please, for my education, list some specific things that the Seattle Mountaineers have done. It isn't that I don't believe that there are things, I just haven't ever seen a list of *specific* things. Here is my list: - Consistently go on trips with large numbers of people. - Consistently have an attitude that they have preferred rights to the Cascades because of "all they've done". - Consistently berate and chastise other climbers for doing things the "wrong" way. - Support the ridiculous Fee Demo program for the reason that "if we don't support it, we don't get a seat at the table to discuss it." Really? What kind of discussion is that, given that everyone there has to support the policy? - Try to run almost 200 people through the basic climbing course each year. - Consistently monopolize areas and routes trying to train all those people. - Consistently have a significant number of injuries each year and try to rationalize them as "to be expected given the number of trips we do." I've been on some of those trips and I see why people get hurt. It isn't just percentages. - Have an organizational belief that they represent climbers in the Northwest. To quote from Monty Python, “Well I didn’t vote for you!” I joined to find other people to climb with. And I did meet some great people. But in the few months that I was in the Basic class I repeatedly saw trip leaders ignore input from students about safety issues. In one case, on the Nisqually glacier, this attitude nearly cost several people their lives when a car-sized boulder fell *between* two rope teams. Five minutes earlier I had been one of a group of people who strongly suggested to the Training class leader that the area was not safe. Our suggestion was summarily dismissed. And that is why people get hurt on their trips. And who was here first is irrelevant. It is about who is here now and how they (we) behave. But for the record, and contrary to some beliefs, it was Native Americans who were here first, not the Mountaineers. -CC

Yes, yes, Victory Ridge Direct. I suggest that you take some of the new Omega Choss-Screws. Like maybe 300 or so. Seriously, though. Get to the North side of the mountain. It's like a whole different volcano there. The North ridge is entertaining and (though I haven't done it) the Adams glacier is supposed to be fun, too. -CC

Please define "quality" and "good". I'll preface my comments by saying that I was invited to cease my participation in the Mountaineers Basic course. The Seattle branch of the Mountaineers, IN MY OPINION, is very good at teaching what they teach. I happen to disagree, rather strongly, with the "what". I found it to be a very autocratic organization where I was strongly encouraged not to voice my opinion, especially if it was different from the leader's. In the end, I was ready to quit when they decruited me. To describe them in one word: "Traditional". And welcome to the area. There is a lot of fun climbing to do here, once you get the hang of the weather. And there are lots of great people here to climb with. -CC

I think BD is getting picked on a bit b/c they had the audacity to claim (on another site) that the price differential was due to "costs of sales and promotion*" in the U.S.", and because they coerced some non-U.S. shops into ceasing shipments back into the U.S. or artificially inflating the prices on those shipments. They are a class operation- good gear that they stand behind. But I see no reason that we should pay up to twice as much for the same equipment as folks in Canada and Europe. In some cases, like Scarpa, the gear is not manufactured by BD, just distributed. Sure, that neutrino biner is nice, but why is it $8 here and $4 elsewhere? And if the R&D is so costly, then don't revamp the whole line of T-Whatever boots (etc.) every year, for God's sake. If you are looking for other names, you can start with LifeLink. Dynafit products are about 80% more here than at some of the shops in Europe. And Climb High too, with all the Grivel products. Sorry if I am ranting a bit, but I just had MEC tell me this morning they wouldn't ship *any* climbing gear into the States anymore. I'll quit now. -CC *Read the response from BD here: http://www.backcountryworld.com/dcforum/equipment/334.html#2