Ade

Seems to me that no other route data is in the public domain. All guidebooks are copyrighted, their authors invest the time to assemble all the information and then hope to make some of it back by selling the guidebook. Having done a bit of it I remember it being very dull. I think people will submit reports but finding enough people with time to edit and review submissions, rather than going climbing, will be hard. Web hosting costs money as does the creation of the sort of bespoke route recording application that's been talked about. I don't think that the web site would generate enough traffic to attract sufficient sponsors or ad revenue to pay for itself. If you believe that (and maybe you don't) then you need to find some way to cover your costs and editorial work. If you partnered with a commercial interest, The Mountaineers or Falcon Press would seem like a good fit, they publish many of the guidebooks, or CC who are in the business of building a community and want to drive more traffic to their site. Here's my idea... Those submitting work give up their copyright to individual submissions in exchange for access to all the raw data. This site is setup to allow any author to download the whole raw database. This would mean that even if the partner/host decided to kill the site the data would still be available. This would also allow guidebook authors to use the data for updating existing guides and publishing new ones. Important if you partnered with a publisher. How much editing would get done? Some but not a lot. The partner would be keen to do at least some, after all a route DB that's a total mess isn't going to drive traffic. Some authors would also edit and review entries. But then editing is the real value add of a guidebook and something you're pretty much always going to have to pay for. But at least this way you have a new routes web site that contains public domain data and covers its costs. I also have a few ideas on implementation but I think that's getting ahead of ourselves. And it sounds dangerously like my day job :-) Ade

Using your tools as part of the belay, as opposed to just clipping them into the belay as an emergency backup in case of some horrible event, isn't recommended. Alex is right though, you should use the hole in the spike not the leash either way. "Ice : Tools & Technique" by Duane Raleigh (I think or was it the Craig Luebben book?) has some interesting data on this using tests by the author and BD including scary pictures of tools that broke at pretty low loads. My second Android appeared and I'm off to test it in the NE so I'll let you know how I get on. Later... Ade

I would of course love to attend (I even have a few pictures etc). Unfortunately I'm gone from the 9th until the 27th to New England. This means my lap on Drury will have to wait too but I think I can deal with it. Have fun... Ade

Joe's original post gives details. Chessler Books (I've used them loads - highly recommended). The Mountaineers What did you pilfer? Ade

Ray is correct, in both respects. Names who cares? But... it bugged me so I checked this with various reliable sources. The picture labelled "Waite for Spring" is in fact "The Dihedral" and the picture of "Deeping Wall" is actually "Waite for Spring". So the original ordering was correct. Ade

I've been contemplating the same solution as geordie. AT bindings with (cheap) short skis for approaches to routes etc. Colin, how tall/heavy are you (if you don't mind me asking)? I'm 200lbs and wondering how short is too short? Ade

There's a thread on this already. Looks like the book is out of print. Ade

I think Waite for Spring is the thin climb to the right of the corner, furthest left on the main wall. Here's part of an update, written by Don Serl, to the BC guide in CAJ '96. "Some confusion has resulted from my lack of specificity in my description of the lefthand route. Waite for Spring climbs the Grade 4 flow on the main face; the usually considerably more difficult ice in the dihedral to the left is a separate line, whose history I am completely unclear on. May I suggest the incredibly imaginative name of “The Dihedral” for this feature?" BTW: I think we bumped into you guys. We were doing Icy BC on Saturday morning, we were the second party on the 1st pitch of the route first thing in the morning. Must go and do Synchronicity... Sounds great! Ade [This message has been edited by Ade (edited 01-29-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ade (edited 01-29-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ade (edited 01-29-2001).]

So this is further left again... I've not heard of this one before, and from memory I can't visualise it. So this would mean that from left to right. Dale's route (smear l of dihedral) The Dihedral (fat and wet at the moment) Waite for Spring (thin route on the face) The Deepening Wall Deepening Wall Direct (r at half height to continue the pillar) No Deductable (icy wall 10m? left of Icy BC) Icy BC (plus numerous variations) Dale - does this make sense? Ade [This message has been edited by Ade (edited 01-29-2001).]

The BD Ice Clipper certainly seems to do the business. I'm sure a carbon fiber one is in the works for about $50 for those of us who feel a bit uncomfortable owning a bit of BD gear that can be described as cheap. The wire gate on the Ice Clipper really helps, it gives you a nice flat surface to push against when racking/unracking screws. I use an Ice Clipper for Express Screws (to be placed on steep sections) and wire gate biners for the rest.

I'll second that. I have one of these too and am very pleased with it, enough to drop another $40 for a second one. You can also set them up to use your own wrist loop with the steel connector piece if you don't like the BD wrist loop.

I'll second that. I have one of these too and am very pleased with it, enough to drop another $40 for a second one. You can also set them up to use your own wrist loop with the steel connector piece if you don't like the BD wrist loop.

I don't think this is correct. Gore-Tex will also suck water in if the air outside the fabric is warmer and damper than the air inside. You seem to be saying that this is only a problem with monolithics?

Well I'll confess to being a member of the AAC, along with the AC ((British) Alpine Club) and ACC. I'm also the webmaster of the the AAC Cascades Section's rather old web site which I am in the process of slowly renovating. You're right the Cascades section of the AAC doesn't seem to do lots of social events. But looking at some of the other sections neither do they. Firstly I don't think the AAC is that sort of club, neither is the AC, although the Vancouver section of the ACC is pretty active. For your $75 each year you get a bunch of other stuff instead, books insurance, grants, access issues etc. Secondly, Steve Swenson (another one of those American climbing types - who apparently all suck) is the section chair and, I guess like myself and the couple of other people I know in the Cascade section they're all pretty busy climbing and holding down jobs to pay for it. Organising talks, climbing meets and the like has taken a back seat. Finally, there doesn't seem to be much interest from local AAC members, I've certainly never received any email about the web site. If you want a local club which runs lots of events there are several to choose from; Mountaineers, BoeAlps and WAC (you may not like them but that are there). This site is effectively a club too. So there's nobody pushing the Cascades section to organise lots of events as presumably those people who want that sort of thing from a club have found it elsewhere. I will be doing some more to the Cascades section site but CascadeClimbers has filled a lots of the gaps Andrew and I talked about covering! I don't intend to duplicate the efforts of Tim and co. Ade (This is my personal opinion and not that of the AAC Cascades section etc etc)

There's some new routes listed on bivouac.com. There are also new routes reported in the CAJ, most notable the 1996 edition, I think the routes on bivouac were also reported in the 1999 edition. If you're going to the Lillooet Ice Festival then you'll get a new topo map with lots of routes marked on it. I imagine this will include a lot of the new lines Lyle etc have done. Current beta on routes is: "no problem with the higher altitude climbs, but stuff in the valleys is non-existant. not sure what that means out the bridge; night n gale is ok, but that's high." Colder temps seem to be on the way. Bivouac hasn't been updated as the guy who runs it is on holiday. Ade

I have a Mtn Hardware Jacket made from Conduit, it's pretty light weight so I'm not sure how durable gloves would be be but the jacket seems to be pretty waterproof. I've been ice climbing in it a load and not gotten that wet. I have other Mtn Hardware gear that has stood the test of time so I'd be optimistic that the gloves should wear OK. As you've noticed it's also a tad cheaper than GoreTex. Probably because half the profits don't go into marketting to make you believe that the fabric is magic and will keep you dry no matter what - especially then playing Golf. Ade

I'm doing a bit of research and was looking for a library that had back issues of the Canadian Alpine Journal (CAJ), and maybe other journals, American Alpine Journal and Alpine Journal etc. Yes, I know the Mountaineers library has all this but they also want $15 to make a copy of an article... I don't think so. Are there any other libraries in Puget Sound?

Hi, Looks like you've got a TR on most of these. Was anything leadable? Ade

Does anyone have more details on Banks Lake? Where the routes are etc (I've not seen this in any books). Ade

So has anyone been up there yet?

Nope. Why is this any better than a Black Diamond ATC (or similar)?

I have a pair of the Tecnica Altitudes which I really like them for technical ice climbing but they're pretty stiff soled and much lower volume that my plastic boots. They're made of Kevlar so I didn't really have to break them in at all that much. You might check out some of their other, lighter boots. http://www.tecnicausa.com/ [This message has been edited by Ade (edited 12-11-2000).]

I'm pretty sold on Silveretta bindings to fit my mountaineering boots. Several companies seem to make a short approach ski. The Dynafit Tourlite Uphill for example is only 130cm long and weigh 4lb 8oz. They also have the added advantage of being considerably cheaper than a lot of other skis. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of ski in the Cascades? I would have thought they would work pretty well in heavy snow. They're supposed to be pretty popular in Europe. I only really want them for approaching routes, initially I wouldn't even be buying AT boots for them. Ade

Hey, you asked what a Cap was. Me, I'd go for the Oakleys or similar. Another "wacky" option you could consider is skydiving goggles.

Someone sent me this. I'm not sure that foam is anything like real ice but it might be worth checking out: "I went to Cascade Crags last night to visit with one of my buddies that works there. While there they proudly showed me their new indoor ice climbing set up. It is way cool. Not literally cool though. It is sheets of high density foam. They have them fastened to a wall. There is also an overhang about three quarters of the way up. If you are interested in checking it out, now would be a good time. They are allowing folks to try it out for free right now. I tried it. It was way fun and pretty dam close to the real thing. If it proves popular they are planning on expanding it. They want to have a corner and some additional realistic situations. I think that they are only one of three places in the country that have this set up. I don't think any of the other places in this area have an ice climbing wall as yet. This is about the best innovation I have seen at an indoor climbing gym in a while. I highly recommend it. Cascade Crags is in Everett on Rucker Ave."