Alex

Clearly my dry humor was lost on you, my apologies!

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I'd have to agree that the old version of Kramar's had more detail in the topos, and I still refer to it for things like Careno, Icicle Buttress, SCW, etc. The new guide of course has directions to all the new crags in it, so its a must have as well.

I've met Fred Beckey, Matt Kerns, and Daryl Cramer and have to say that none of them looked like the Refreshus Verticus, the Wild Running Rainier ??

Josh, best bet is to get a punchcard or pony up for a couple months membership to either Stone Gardens, Vertical World, or Cascade Crags in Seattle and Everett respectively. Then you can learn how to move, learn to belay, try out some different shoes, learn how to tie the knots, and generally see if it all clicks with you. You can take classes at gyms, or just try to hook up with other noobs. In my experience the Redmond VW is a good place to boulder (climb low to the ground without a rope) and hook up with people. Climbing is interesting, but not for everyone. So just testing the waters this way will be one good way to see if it fits with you (there are other ways, but all depend on friends who know what they are doing, or hiring guides). Technique is important, but strength is a very small part of it...by the time you need any strength, you'll know all the basics and be climbing pretty hard so dont worry about strength. HTH

He's just bitter because he didnt have Quark Ergo's or Neutrinos in his day.

i went to Gunshow and climbed 4 nice routes with no one around,.. nice day!

i'll check PMs at 2pm

looks like a nice beginner area, whats the approach like?

Comparing Prophets to Quarks is about as apples to oranges as you can get. BD tools like the Prophet or Cobra are an entirely different ballpark than CM tools like the Quark, the weight is different, swing is different, everything is different. If you like your Quarks better, thats awesome(!) but its not because the Prophet was a bad tool, just a bad tool for you. I personally find the Quark way too light and rattly for my liking, Id rather swing a heavy tool once at bullet proof ice than hack away for 10 min with a light tool like a Quark or Axar.

Is this why you now go by Cobra-Commander, because you made the switch?? Go Joe!

60

ah yes so sorry, I was thinking you mean N Couloir, not the actual rock route.

It was warm(er) this weekend in the Icicle. I've gone into Colchuck Lake early in the winter season several times before and even in a normal snow year the route does not get to the point where it can be "easily" climbed until later in the season. If you are looking for thin snow cover, that classic verglassed rock band guarding the lower third of the route, and sketch central on the upper NE face, then anytime soon should be good.

I disagree, Syd Barret Floyd wasnt that interesting musically, Pink Floyd really only came into their own starting with Atom Heart Mother and then later albums from 73-81 (Final Cut is still one of my favs), but the stuff that is called "Pink Floyd" post 1981 is nothing but David Gilmour solo stuff re-packaged with the two other original band members. In their most recent album I heard some hints of retro pre-breakup floyd, but still mostly idle Gilmour stuff.

Something sat afternoon through Sunday. PMs

in my experience 1) straight shafts are not nearly as comfortable, so you dont have as nice an experience on steep ice (bashed knuckles, hands greasing off the shaft, pumping out easier) and comfort makes a difference for confidence, which makes a difference for leading on ice alot! 2) the people who can climb really hard can climb really hard on pretty much any tools. So don't imagine that by going to the Quark Ergo your lead grade will suddenly be WI5. 3) straight shafts still really nice for snow climbing in the alpine

Climb: Entiat-Carne Mountain High Route Date of Climb: 10/8/2005 Trip Report: Seeing that the larches had turned but that snow line was descending mas rapido while cragging in the Icicle last weekend, I decided that it was high time to get on one of the October trips I had planned before it really was too late this year. So with the semi-decent forecast for Saturday, my wife and I headed over to the Entiat bright and early Saturday morning to do the Carne Mountain High Route, a traverse from Carne Mountain to Leroy Basin in the Entiat. I had been messing around in the range for a few years, but only last June had ventured to try this (reasonable day-trip) traverse. In June I had lost the trail under snow and in the clouds and ended up descending down Chipmunk Creek, not even half way along from Leroy Basin. Visibility had been poor and I figured I had just lost "the trail" and that if I went just before the snow flew it would be easy going. At the trailhead we were greeted with that full-on winter feeling: dark forboding clouds and a very low snow line! Man, it was depressing and exhilarating at the same time! We were also a little bit late getting out of the house so we resolved to get to the top of Carne Mountian and see what the whole thing looked like. Carne Basin did not dissapoint! There is a real larch forest up there, in this sheltered basin, and it was really awesome! On the summit, where we encountered a Mountaineers party of 10 coming down, we scoped out the rest of the traverse. My wife, practical as ever, figured we would just go for it if we could get to Leroy Basin by dark. So we did. The traverse was under 6 inches of snow, but the way looked fairly straightforward and at least we had a map (this time!). Armed with the knowledge that I could at least get down Chipmunk creek again should the weather turn sour, we set off. At first the trail is very easy to follow. Then it becomes less easy. Then it becomes pretty hard. Finally, about a third of the way along from Carne Mountain through Box Creek, we pretty much lost it entirely. Looking at the map we could pretty much figure out where it went, but it required gaining a bit of elevation to go through a high saddle, and it was under alot of snow so we decided to stay low. There was a faint path here, too, with a few isolated cairns. We were only half a drainage away from Chipmunk creek, where I knew I could figure out how to get to Leroy Basin again going the way I had come in June, so we continued on this path. For the most part, this section of the Carne Route is actually pretty well-travelled: you can tell that alot of people have gotten lost and have 'schwacked their way across the Chipmunk Creek basin. The day wore on and the larches were awesome, the newly fallen snow was awesome, the travel was awesome. It snowed on us a little bit, it was pretty cold. Really "fresh" weather! The travel was pretty stress free, since I knew a/the way to Leroy Basin from Chipmunk Creek (it requires slogging up a long grassy slope to gain a goat trail that skirts a large cliffband). As the afternoon progressed it got colder and it was really awesome just moving all the time, getting great views, feeling October in full force. We got to the notch overlooking Leroy Basin in late afternoon, ate the last of the sandwiches, and made our way down into Leroy Basin, here a few parties were camped out for the weekend. We basically ran down the Leroy Basin trail (so much erosion!) on wobbly quads, and got to the main trail at 6. Hiked out the last mile or so in the dark. In the last few hundred yards to the car, in the deep trees, we got buzzed by a large owl! Sooo cool! Gear Notes: map, good boots, extra layers, visibility all very useful Approach Notes: There is snow above 6500 and its sticking.

I think Nepal Extremes would be a bad idea on Denali. On some of the lower elevation peaks (lets say, below 14,000) maybe they might work.

yes, statics are used for toproping. They do have *some* streatch, just not as much as dynamic ropes. But yes, if you end up being inattentive as a belayer and allow 10 fet of penalty slack into the system, then falls even on TR become dangerous.

touche!

Look, I appreciate your desire to defend your product and brand, but you are stating full retail prices. There is no doubt your product is a quality down product and perhaps they are not overpriced compared to other makers in your product's space. Perhaps I should have qualified my statement with "I've found bro deals and sale items for every down product known to man, every year, except Feathered Friends stuff." As a counter point to your statement, then,.. TNF Nuptse in new condition bought at Second Ascent last week in my size, 70$. <edit>I should further clarify that my own personal belief is that brand name has little or no real value when starting to contemplate the higher end/higher quality outdoor products, such as MHW, TNF, Feathered Friends, Marmot, and so on. Some of this belief comes from working in the space for many years, some of it comes from buying, and some of it comes from pure experience seeing all the hardmen out there in Canada all winter wearing rags and still sending M11. All the makers make good products, good garments, nice down garments with very good materials, workmanship, quality control, etc. FF is no exception. So in the end (and the reason I made my post) is that price becomes the real and overriding descriminator. And the unfortunate thing (and perhaps this is a true compliment to FF stuff) is that I have never found any used FF gear for sale, but I *have* found other new or used down products for sale for much less than what I would have paid new at a retail outlet. Its just part of my game. But my belief might not be shared by everyone, and I am sure there are people who swear their <FF,Marmot,TNF/> jacket is the absolute bomb.</edit>

they cost alot.

Adequate instruction. Gear is just gear, without a brain it means nothing. 1) Please better define "coast range". Washington Cascades? BC Coast Range? Oregon? 2) "Upcoming season" ...like, Summer time? Gear will vary depending on whether you are here in June or August or October. With those things in mind, here is a non-exhaustive list of things you will need to have or be able to borrow to do simple, overnight "alpine" trips in the Washington Cascades and Oregon. When coming up with this list I thought "what would I take on an overnight trip to the W Ridge of Forbidden?" * instruction in self arrest, crevasse rescue, trad climbing, safe snow travel and climbing. RMI, AAI, the other AAI and other such outfits offer 6-21 day courses. The Mountaineers, BoeAlps and other such climbing clubs also offer basic courses that might meet your needs for less cost. Ideally, someone who is experienced will take you along some basic trips...if you post here under Climbing Partners someone might take you out. * the 30L pack might be too small. 40L probably better for summer trips, larger for winter trips. I have 3 packs: summit pack for day trips in the Summer, a 40L pack for most things, and a Dana Terraplane for the long winter trips. * sleeping bag. If buying just 1, get a 20 degree down bag. * bivy sack/ tent. Essential. * basic stove. In the Spring you might be melting snow for water. * basic ice axe * basic strap on crampons * helmet * trad rock climbing rack - set of nuts, set of cams from green alien/yellow TCU size to #3 camalot. * PROBABLY need floatation of some sort eventually - snowshoes or AT skis "Alpine climbing" is simply rock and snow and ice climbing farther from the road than "cragging". So mostly you need good camping gear, good camping skills, good boots, trad leading gear, and other stuff to execute the cross country travel. If by "coast range" you mean "BC Coast Range", you would supplement this list with a helicopter. Alex

Ice Floss 60m works well for ice climbing