Alex

Its thin, but there. If you wallow enough you can set up a TR

Real Ice

You are right, I don't live in Canmore. When I have a week off, sure I choose to go to the Rockies, just like you, just like Josh. Sure I have a great time there! My point is not that Washington or Oregon is somehow this magical mecca of ice climbing. I agree with you and Josh that its not. My point is that it is not tropical enough here to sit around at home, hating it on the Internet, when you could still get decent climbing on the weekend without driving 22 hours round trip (which I've done, too). Why is this so hard to grasp?

hopefully the rain will get rid of some of the snow cover and let the thing freeze more solidly again

dammit! not the tutu!

When its in, its in. Yes. I am defending it, sure. If you disagree.. fine? Think of me as just a dood with an opinion about it, like you, not some "guidebook author" (that you spit with apparent disgust). Ultimately who cares? If the Rockies works for you, why don't you just go to the Rockies and be happy climbing, why all the hate like this lame "[TR]"? Did you happen to check out Waynes climb of the sick-o looking Black Dagger thingy in the gorge? It looked absolutely stellar. Not fat, blue, or easy. Real climbing. Id say that the stuff in the Gorge the last two weeks has easily been on par with any of the nice interesting ice I've done in Lillooet or the Rockies.

I've got pictures of you sketching on 5.9

You dont get out much do you? Too bad. And the "guidebook author"...not really sure what thats supposed to mean? Have I been skooled? Please advise.

"you never know til you go"

LAFF! I just got back a couple weeks ago from a week over Thanksgiving in the Canadian Rockies and the weather had been really warm and geeeeee everyone on LTV was asking for weeks and weeks if crap is in (and hearing the reply include "thin", "manky", "wet", "not quite in", "falling down" or any number of other similar descriptions) Sound familiar? The Rockies are just another ice climbing area, sometimes it is much colder there.

Actually I was thinking about heading out there on Thurs if it wasnt raining too bad. Post of PM if anyone else wants to go.

Funny how ambitions never really match up with reality...I tried to set even modest goals for myself for 2005, which meant that I would finally finally tick some things off the list so I could concentrate on other shite. Well, some of that happened (thanks all you who helped but especially to my wife who happily fills in as my partner when all my other partners bail) but not nearly enough, for lots of reasons and excuses. This year, 2006, is looking up, however. I am not getting married, having kids (that I know of?), changing jobs (that I know of?), buying a house, remodelling my house, sailing a large boat, or having my parents visit for the month of August. Which means there is nothing for me to do but climb! Thats the theory anyway.

That looks cool! I baked cookies today, yum!

I climbed Fugs last year first week of January and it was in similar shape. Its a great climb!

Thats Chockstone, its in the book.... Alex

I believe strongly that screamers are not only useful in all situations, but necessary in all situations, which is why I suggested you put one on every ice screw placement you make. Sorry if this was not clear. The point I was trying to make is that screamers should not be reserved for or limited to junk placements in some mistaken belief that they will save your ass when the ice or the placement is crap, they should be used ubiquitously to get potential leader falls within acceptable load limits as much as possible.

Drytool night dood

In my experience placing a screw as per diagram a) or c) above is completely unsafe. There is an enormous amount of force generated in even a short leader fall, and leaving part of a screw sticking out of the ice, even in good ice, creates an unwanted lever arm that just increases the load on the screw, especially around the bottom of the tube where the screw compresses the ice during a fall. Screws even in the best ice, fully in, rip out with regularity during leader falls. I believe most climbers are willingly unaware of what their protection can actually do in the real world. Just as most trad rock climbers have never actually fallen, let alone fallen big on their own pro, even more ice climbers have never taken a lead fall, let alone on a screw, let alone on a screw in bad ice. (The same could be said about people's use of snow anchors.) Thats not a bad thing that ice climbers arent taking falls, but it doesnt lead to real awareness in inexperienced or even experienced climbers about what loads are generated or what the system can actually handle. In rock climbing the usual cure is to go aid climbing, where you bouce test and are forced to body-weight each piece you place, you get a very intimate awareness for what pro can do. Here you realize that most of the pro you've placed wouldnt probably hold a leader fall. But this type of education doesnt exist in ice climbing, so you are left with your own fall resume, what you've seen, and printed reports like that excellent study done some years ago on ice screw failure. For example, for me the only fall I've ever taken was a ground fall. The only other fall I've ever seen was a 10 foot fall onto a perfect screw in fat strong ice, which ripped easily and became a factor 2 fall directly onto the belay. So the questions become "how comfortable are you soloing?" and "is your life worth leaving the ground unprepared?". Because if you are placing screws in crappy ice in any of the above ways and actually believe in it, you are simply deluding yourself - you are soloing, your screws won't hold in a real fall situation, though if you are lucky they might hold you while you lower off. Even with screamers! ...screamers just get the load of a leader fall within the load limits of the ice screws themselves, around 10kN. If you use normal draws directly on ice screws you are hurting your chances for surviving a lead fall significantly. This is the reason you should use screamers...not to hold the falls when you place a screw in garbage (cause nothing other than God is propping you up there), but to hold the falls by well placed screws in the best ice. Leaving the ground unprepared means leading ice without taking the tools you need to climb safely. This includes stubby 10cm screws, 13cm screws which have threads all the way to the hanger, pins, long slings to tie off bushes and large ice features, Vthread tat and a Vthreader. If you are not so armed, especially around here where the climbs are not so nearly frequented, fat, and well equipped as the Rockies or Lillooet or Hyalite, you are again deluding yourself about your safety. <edit>So what to do? One option is the next time you go ice climbing, TR something. Take a pack and a 10-foot piece of rope. Load up the pack, place a screw, clip the pack to one end of the 10ft section of rope and clip the other end to the screw, and heave it off! See what happens. A day spent doing this will make you vastly more familiar with what ice and ice screws can actually do in even "light load" situations As for being prepared, at a minimum always carry Vthread and a threader. 10 and 13cm screws are a very good investment, in fact 13s in good ice are going to be just as strong as the standard 16-17cm screws. As a bonus, the 13s have threading all the way up the shaft, making them the best option for tricky placements that might be partially hollow. Invest in screamers, one for each screw you own. Dont use them and blow them out during rock climbing season, as they trigger at really low loads, but every screw placement you make should have a screamer. learn how to look for good ice and place screws effectively in it. Unfortunately, nothing substitutes for real experience and real mentoring here, and ever neophyte ice climber owes it to themselves to get real lessons in ice screw placement (and removal, I can't tell you how many times ive had a second get to the belay with cores still in screws, firmly frozen) from a very experienced climber friend </edit>

Thats known as the "NW Ice Couloir". We thought about putting it in the book, but since its usually/mostly a short snow route, we didnt. Looks like its in fun shape right now.

maybe, depends on work.

if the ice is good enough to warrant 2 days, lots of people camp in their trucks at steamboat rock sp. otherwise, i've stayed at cheap-o hotels in wenatchee but its hit or miss. probably the only thing to do near banks for little ladies that dont ice climb is go ice fishin' or sit in the car and read.

Yes I saw it. Its right above the "BlackIce" area. Its extemely difficult to get to the top of that particular cliff (I've tried in the fall) for even a chance at setting up a TR.

Might be Trapper Annex

Two friends and I climbed a really nice, sunny line up the Tumwater towards Stevens Pass (futher than the rest area) today, very visible w/ easy looking approach from the road by the sign that says "Adopt-A-Higway" "Chris". (<edit> It turns out this is "Chandelier", which has not formed in a number of years </edit>). A couple other cool cats were already there at the base when we arrived... Anyway Chandelier was the fattest any of these cool cats or I had ever seen it, a nice stylish 45m WI3 - melting away in the sun. We did rock paper scissors for the lead. My famous friend won, and lead the route in one long pitch to a nice tree belay, and then my taller friend added a second tricky mixed pitch up the rock above (with pure rock gear, pins and cams to 3") between a thin free standing pillar and the melted-out, falling apart main flow. If you would like to climb Chandelier, which has a short approach that can even avoid the private property around it if you try, some nice ice, some "snice" for spice, nice exposure, is south facing, with no av hazard and is probably one of the few honest WI3 routes around AND is certainly the fattest its been that anyone can remember (which means it takes at least 10cm screws), I would get to the base of the route before dawn!

Thanks for the pics, they look about the same as it ever was for this time of year. Sad Ce'bu looks in typical Dec conditions...totally leadable but thin. I think thats pretty standard for that route. Lucky its not higher angle, or it probably wouldnt form as reliably. The weather is supposed to stay cold with no new storm systems though this week, so it should form up even better. Sudden Change looks like in the same shape as it was in when we got the second ascent of it - the first 10 m were totally cerebral with dirt and moss sticks but the ice thickens up to stubby depth pretty fast and the top half is easy to protect, with only one annoying shrub. The partially formed route that goes straight up on Sad Ce'bu from just before the belay cave looks like it might be a good mixed route, but I remember scoping the rock out and not being too confident in it. Still, might be a good thing to TR this year to see if it goes. One could easily set up a tree TR from above with a double rope...