summitchaserCJB

Shouldn't he be shunned from the climbing community ??

Wow he's gettin off easy!!

I think we're talking about the same thing here and it's different strokes for different folks.

haha ya

So I take it that skis a normally employed with this set-up? Guess that rules out the people without AT setups.

Ya I think this conversation may be taking on the more philosophical color eldiente, not that there is any problem with that. I think the hyperbole might be just to highlight the questions at hand.

I'd say if I had to lean any direction it is towards under-protecting routes. Because you can always add bolts later if need be (although this is not meshing well with the common practice). I think we need a few over-bolted routes (condomorphine addiction) that let more new climbers onto otherwise intimidating routes. Obviously, as evidenced by their continued existence and even propagation, these routes serve a purpose. Then again, I climb trad 97% of the time.

[video:youtube]

I made it up to 10,200 on Hood in November once. Would have probably summited if it were less foggy.

trees

ok that pic is creepster.

Ya that was what I was afraid would happen ..

sounds so dangerous. but strangely interesting.

sorry to keep posting but you're making me think. You do bring up a good point about risk in climbing. I think there is a point where you degrade what climbing is to the point where it is something altogether different. Of course there is a spectrum and any given activity within climbing falls somewhere on the spectrum. I personally don't care as much about how you define "climbing". I'm more interested in how that translates into route devolopment. Of course, certain ethics lead to unfortunate practices at the crag.

I just think it's funny when you claim this subjectivity in route ethics then you basically claim that you set the standard by claiming that routes are too "safe". Make up your mind!

I think you're putting words in my mouth. But I'll play along. (strawman detected). I guess for my I just don't want to die. when I think I'm going to die it is no longer fun. It's kinda that simple. Cheers!

Joe- I appreciate your perspective. But really you have brought up way more questions than you have answered. I guess the best answer I can come up with is to climb and establish in the manor you want to see out there. I think putting up unsafe routes is kinda irresponsible, by definition. But people do it so what can you do?

Better than ugly and a dumbass. (not refering to anyone in particular).

Guess that rules you out then phil

and dude someone died. Try exercising some sensitivity.

no you're hardcore man. I climb choss only.

Ya I suppose. But all it takes is one loose rock to end your day. That was enough to make me vigilant.

It's worse when you solo it. The mind plays dirty tricks.

My brother and I witnessed a recovery there a couple months ago.

of course.