Water

no, they both show the wrong route we took the first time there. CORRECT:

stl i sent you a pm -- leaning pretty solid towards the summit mountain, you seem to be the only person on the net i can find who owns this tent how do you like it? etc etc etc

i am quite happy with Lowa Mnt Expert. My feet sweat a ton no matter what and I've found them fine for summer climbs and warm enough for 5-10 degree long day on hood. front toe bail, and got them at a steal $189 from OMC--had just one pair for sale in my size. lowa boots work great for my feet. I haven't even switched the stock insole

Thanks for the contributions and 2cents everyone. And thank you BigSky for taking a gander and comparing tents, very helpful. A friend of mine has the EV2 and while it felt quite solid to sleep in, the quasi-vestibule didn't make sense to me. Either a real vestibule or save the weight and skip it. I'm 5'8" and For my uses a ~4lb tent would work great, easy enough to carry for myself. If a climbing partner wants to carry a tent that fits a bigger frame then we can split the weight of a bigger tent. The Rab Summit Mountain dimensions seem similar to the superlite: Superlite 87.4 x 47.2 x 27.5 (51-53oz?) Summit Mnt 87.5 x 47.2 x 39.3 (71oz) 4.4 MK1 XL 86 x 46 x 39 (68-76oz dep. on floor) Or thereabout..seems like the Summit Mnt would work for weight, and I can find it for a good price. Tenshi definitely has something going, wonder if the eVent vs what they use now matters that much, I've been very happy with eVent material overall compared to other waterproof/breathable things. Maybe shouldn't be too hung up on it. MJaso: what is the pared down weight/vs with vestibule/etc? We talking 4.2lbs vs 5 or 4.2vs 6.5? thanks again, appreciate folks 2cents

thanks for the advise on the rab summit mountain/superlite. The summit mountain is 87.5" X 47.2" X 39.3" and 4.4lbs. hmm guess I'll be looking between tenshi and the summit mountain. might just order them both and do a side-by-side they get away with making those by calling them bivys, tents must be fireproof as they are under some rule as type of 'shelter' where a bivy is not.

is the stripped down aspect meaning no vestibule or condensation curtain, cause that is pretty solid, and I like being able to opt based on conditions. is yours made of eVent or the new stuff? whats the deal with dropping eVent in tents--the fire issue? i wonder how bad it was/is compared to 'fire retardant' materials (gasoline vs hunk of wood?)

Okay I've the threads on this topic but still would like to hear some more since it is a big purchase. Right now I have a tarptent for summer use so I'd like something for winter. I imagine I'd get more use out of a tent than a bivy since I rarely do things solo. I would like something towards the lightweight side of the spectrum (3-5lbs, not the 7-9lbs VE25/Trango 2). Primarily for weekend use (no expedition stuff). I see a lot of bibler/BD tents in trip reports here, seems mostly FirstLight and/or I-tent/Eldorado. What are people's take on the lack of vestibule? Works fine with a canister stove and some venting? Boots near the door just deal with a bit of extra melt? And then the take on firstlight vs i-tent as far as water resistance? Anyone been dissatisfied with the firstlight here in the PNW specifically, wishing for an i-tent--why/what were conditions that lead to that thought? Any other suggestions (brand wise) for the weight, (exped, hilleberg?) Thanks much

yes. our line bends to the right, if you draw it straight from where we start to go up to where we start to turn near the top it would make a straight line through the hourglass. i think at the time we thought our route looked the most 'hourglass' like from down below. though once we got up a ways i started to realize we were probably off and needed to be further to the left. I think the other factor was not wanting to veer left too far and end up going up a yocum ridge gully? I dunno, it seems stupid looking at it now but at the time I guess we didn't have as grand of perspective, even though I'd read up as much as possible on the route and looked at plenty of pictures.

this is where we took our wrong turn the first time there. As this was at least my and my partners first non-southside climb we were a little worried that after we got through that chute (a small 5 foot step of ice) we would be committed to some more gnarly stuff-but it was an easy traverse over to leutholds, putting us a decent way above the hourglass. unless it is a whiteout, I couldn't foresee making that mistake again.

were they successful? I'd love to see a new TR on it.

love the photography, specially the one of your shadows up top. congrats on a first climb. Now the details bout where the hogsback is and the old chute and all that jazz are old hat

Bad news: my friend who is a federal agent who told me about the cameras was an agent provocateur, and a doofus. So he got fired (no...imprisoned...no better, executed!) for spilling the real beans, and also in the process got us all on the USFS Camera Watch List since we posted in this thread. They've got our info and will track us in the woods. If you don't follow Leave No Trace (the .314th commandmendment) you will go to a FEMA camp. True story, my friend who is a federal agent told me so!

actually the bill was not written from the communist manifesto. That obfuscates the truth. The truth is that it is the written dictation of Obama's oral recital of the communist manifesto, as he learned it, and the quaran word by word in an indonesian madras. He re-honed his memory at a madras in Kenya before he came here to be president. true story. another true rumor from a federal agent who is a friend of mine: Obama signed a secret executive order numbered 666 666 666 on his first day in office and it allows for cameras to be placed EVERYWHERE (but especially in the middle of the most wild places in america, and space). So far they have caught and prosecuted some wolf-on-owl bestiality in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Watch out, you could be next!

as in climber's bivouac? the road is open to there? Or do you mean marble mountain snowpark?

no rope up for southside on hood. you start at timberline parkinglot, 6000ft. the lifts, if running, generally do not start early enough to be of any use to a climber. you can take a snowcat to 8500 if you want to pay for it.

2 layers, one with shiny up, one with shiny down. the shiny side breaks up the smaller wave rays that cause pain and the matte side disrupts the rays that that transmit the commands. At least that is what my friend who is a federal agent told me. I've taken to lining my ballcaps so I don't stand out as much.

great pictures! I was the guy who offered you a beer at the hogsback. Congratulations on the new route!

we just signed up with clubsport this week. the ymca was reducing hours, getting rid of machines/not fixing/improving machines, and buying shit like kettlebells and locking them up... i feel really snobby going to clubsport but like that we can do a few climbs then go workout, climb more if we want..plus my better half is the one who pays whenever we went to PRG we felt compelled to spend as long as possible there to get our moneys worth for a day-pass...but don't go enough to justify anything more than that. if you go as guest of a member the cost for climbing is $15 instead of $20. If you show up to do a tour, you can have a free day there..(which is what we did prior to joining)

wow, so from a camera shot along a road in the woods they were able to ID him and mail him a summons? did he have a photo on file somewhere they were able to match it to? yer sure that they didn't get his license plate from a photo since they monitor their watershed access roads because they've had problems with dumping or something? i cant take a wiz if i know someone is watching, god this sucks the camera network along the appalachian trail and every jackass FS road crossing must be incredible. they should be able to get a lot more accurate stats about usage now--guess that means i dont have to bother filling out those wilderness permits since those are always at then end of a road. sorry its a batshit crazy idea--there are cameras along every forest service road! but you can never find them, they're hidden so well. I have a friend of a friend who found a microchip in a hair follicle and i have a different friend who works for the cia who told me that they're even smaller now so you can't find them, LOL, but basically what I'm trying to tell you is we all have microchips in our scalp--but you can never find them! Trust me, my friend is on the inside and let me in this! but don't tell anyone. oops!

is there a secret cell network that allows cameras to transmit from low areas under tree cover where no person could hope to get a cell signal? jeeez how deep does this go??? They must have some fancy stuff going to get the cameras to only take pictures of humans and cars! They must have notified the elk, bear, and deer not to loiter around or travel through the surveillance areas.

no, don't get me wrong. I don't twitter or make facebook updates and i have my whatever privacy settings i can near the maximum restrictions. I was musing about the multitudes who willfully self-report down to the most inane detail. Those who putting a camera on them would be redundant. There are a lot of them!

meh, many americans do a fine job self-reporting all aspects of their lives now that we use computers constantly. I imagine a generation or two and everyone will have their own live video feed going 24/7 i think i'll buy a metal detector and get cracking on my new hobby. look for my ebay store with pv-700s for cheap. Personally I think your friend is full of it, there are something like 350k miles of FS roads. hey maybe i'm wrong but these are motion activated battery or solar powered? harvesting and actually organizing/utilizing the data would be interesting.. seems like sending out 10,000 recording probes into every direction in space with no broadcast capabilities. yeah your friend really spilled the beans! hope they don't shut down cc.com. or was this a psy-ops to get some anti-camera people out of the woodwork? does anyone have a tinfoil hat that comes with sedatives..i would be able to fall asleep better that way.

If you're really worried about surveillance aren't there intelligence satellites that can pretty well track you at will and determine if you've shaved that morning or not? the idea that there is a host or network of cameras throughout forest service roads in the west of ludicrous. I bet there are targeted operations in places where there has been crime/grow ops/poaching. If you think there is some secret backwoods monitoring going on, what nefarious operation do you suspect they are hoping to catch given they can't seem to secure trailheads enough to prevent vehicles from getting broken into (where a single decent resolution camera would be able to record the plates of any vehicle that came to prowl/get shots of the perps).

fair enough. those online gift card buying sites don't take patagonia cards and suck to begin with. Drop to $150 before it goes on craigslist or ebay (which it appears they do okay on). thanks

*bump* is there a market price a store credit/gift card goes for? or do I just need to come across the right person (someone about to buy something from patagonia?)