tvashtarkatena

It seems to me to be the right tack which the Obama admin is taking...ie, lets not do this, while leaving some wiggle room for an emergency. I wouldn't want another incident where Shiek Mohammeds computer gets picked up, and instead of saying that the US gov't needs a court order to review the files (like the Janet Reno decision in this very instance), the password gets immediately forced out of the dickhead foreign combatant and the plans for 9/11 are layed bare and over 3,000 innocent lives get spared. There's lots of potential for those kinds of incidents and scenarios in the future: so why be dumb and totally ban something which should not be routinely utilized (like it has been), but which should be kept as a very rare backup in extra-ordinary and ulta-extreme highly-critical emergency situations? Say something like this scenario: you know a nuclear weapon has been smuggled into the city which you are living in, and you have captured one of the asswipes responsible and dude isn't talkin'? Are you going to keep saying "please tell us" and just let 2 million innocents die or do you man up and spin the crank ? Congratulations. You've just parroted the most well worn myth in the torture business: the "24" scenario. It's never happened. Stepping away from TV miniseries drama and into a real example, 911 didn't happen because we couldn't get information. Rather, by the administration's own account, we had too much information on the hijackers and neither enough arab translators nor interagency coordination to put the pieces together prior to the attack. To address another point: the Janet Reno style bureacrat standing in the way of our HEROES! . Bullshit since the passage of FISA in the late 70's: which gave the government all the statutory authority to monitor foriegn terrorist organizations in an unencumbered fashion. FISA courts can operate 24/7; FISA warrants can be issued in a matter of hours. They are virtually never denied. On the flip side, such checks and balanced provide a monitoring point for the kind of massive surveillance abuses committed by the Bush Administration...at least until the Press uncovered it.

Judging by your political choices, you strike me as someone who suffers from an inability to accurately judge character, however willing you are to assign the same.

JayB attempting to school Ivan. Now that's funny.

No rationalizations. I think STP had it right: trust but verify. Obama's executive order requires that the U.S. adhere to the rule of law in the treatment and movement of detainees. Rather than assuming or speculating about his supposed hidden agenda, I'll take him at his word until proven wrong by actual events. That seems like a reasonable approach to me.

It's meaningless to speculate about what McCain would have done. He lost.

There goes the "No Animals Were Harmed..." disclaimer. 8 meters deep. Damn.

The difference is the rule of law or lack thereof. For some of us, that's a pretty big difference.

Cynical has lost its cool.

The LA TImes has got it wrong. Obama has haulted the Extraordinary Rendition Program under Bush by revoking the executive orders which started it. He has issued an executive order to "Ensure Lawful Interrogations". To this end, the order establishes a task force: "(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control." Extraordinary Rendition per Bush ignored international treaties regarding extradition procedures and torture. It was an intirely different program that has now ended. Obama's task force is, well, 'tasked' with establishing lawful procedures for transfering detainees across national borders, not kidnap them without regard to the rule of law and transfer them to countries to be tortured. As always, the devil is in the details...not some journalistic hack's misleading headline.

Actually, Billcoe, I was including you as a target of my remark.

What I like about Kevbone is that he at least will read your stuff before he mis-interprets it and comes back with a Roasana Roseanna-Danna rant for a reply yet everyone gives him grief for this. You don't even try to read others stuff generally and just go on rants based on what you believe might have been said. My son use to do this when he was @ 3 or 4. He'd read the first word and try to guess the rest. He grew out of it and we all have hope for you too JB. I suspect RBW is somewhere to the left of you, is very pro-Obama and anti-Bush, and you attacking him is only one more of a long line of meaningless unimportant diversionary posts you have layed down here. [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfIVOPWs_4o&feature=related Perhaps this video will help you. I imagine even most 3 or 4 year olds can stop beating a horse after it's dead enough.

Well, I can see that someone here is begging for a public ass kicking: Obama orders secret prisons closed (among other things) Since the whole point of Rendition is to send detainees to these secret prisons, which will now no longer exist, to be tortured, I think the program has been cancelled, no? But go ahead, find us a linky. And don't worry; I used to get my plus and minus signs mixed up on math tests all the time.

Nice job on a mountain that always seems to reveal it's dark sense of humor somehow.

Obama also prohibited the use of torture of any kind, again, by presidential order. Given that Rendition and torture are now both explicitly banned, it would seem a bit unlikely that torture flights are 'set to be allowed' (whatever that's supposed to mean...maybe some tabloid journalist has managed to implant an hidden agenda-monitoring device in Obama's brain). Unless you're a hard core Truther, of course.

Um...Obama just ended Extraordinary Rendition by presidential order this past week. Guess you didn't get the memo.

Shit, I saw that in Patpong years ago.

Vast conspiracies are hurtful.

This memo's for real. It countermands the Gonzales Doctrine, which turned freedom of information and government transparency on it's head by requiring all agencies to deny Freedom of Information Act Requests unless required to comply specifically by statute. THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ­ For Immediate Release January 21, 2009 January 21, 2009 MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES SUBJECT: Freedom of Information Act A democracy requires accountability, and accountability requires transparency. As Justice Louis Brandeis wrote, "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." In our democracy, the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), which encourages accountability through transparency, is the most prominent expression of a profound national commitment to ensuring an open Government. At the heart of that commitment is the idea that accountability is in the interest of the Government and the citizenry alike. The Freedom of Information Act should be administered with a clear presumption: In the face of doubt, openness prevails. The Government should not keep information confidential merely because public officials might be embarrassed by disclosure, because errors and failures might be revealed, or because of speculative or abstract fears. Nondisclosure should never be based on an effort to protect the personal interests of Government officials at the expense of those they are supposed to serve. In responding to requests under the FOIA, executive branch agencies (agencies) should act promptly and in a spirit of cooperation, recognizing that such agencies are servants of the public. All agencies should adopt a presumption in favor of disclosure, in order to renew their commitment to the principles embodied in FOIA, and to usher in a new era of open Government. The presumption of disclosure should be applied to all decisions involving FOIA. The presumption of disclosure also means that agencies should take affirmative steps to make information public. They should not wait for specific requests from the public. All agencies should use modern technology to inform citizens about what is known and done by their Government. Disclosure should be timely. I direct the Attorney General to issue new guidelines governing the FOIA to the heads of executive departments and agencies, reaffirming the commitment to accountability and transparency, and to publish such guidelines in the Federal Register. In doing so, the Attorney General should review FOIA reports produced by the agencies under Executive Order 13392 of December 14, 2005. I also direct the Director of the Office of Management and Budget to update guidance to the agencies to increase and improve information dissemination to the public, including through the use of new technologies, and to publish such guidance in the Federal Register. more (OVER) 2 This memorandum does not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person. The Director of the Office of Management and Budget is hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register. BARACK OBAMA

Well, it seems as though you can't swing a Gitmo doll without hitting an unpaid tax bill in D.C. these days, but that's always been true. Only about a third of DC wouldn't donate their kids for stem cell farms for 10 all expense paid days in the Bahamas. Obama's system seems pretty good, because it's efficiently outting everybody's 'oversights'. I don't agree that a guy like Daschle should be confirmed as anything but Party Boy, but the gubmint doesn't always do what I think they should.

How about "Codpiece"?

MSNBC: What happens when you put ex-Microsofties in front of a camera. It's a ROFLCOPTER a minute.

Whale vertebra. Duh.

Too late. I already know where all of you live.

A taun taun is a ride to safety. It's constant companionship. It's a steady, guiding presence in a blizzard. But most of all, it's the warm, homey feeling of a belly full...of you.

It's usually the bitches I'm with that cause all the damage.