lazyalpinist

Thanks for the link. Appears you can buy them from Bent Gate today "Usually ships the same business day." without brakes.

Has anyone seen these? Just saw them on the web today? La Sportiva Look very nice, and pricey.

Fixed it for you. I'm amused by your childish retort. Now could you please leave the room the adults are trying to have a conversation?

Just loose in the bag?

What type of container?

You caught me. I typed that up between stirrings of the (Washington State) candied yams and apples I was making. Your welcome Bill. Your previous post is what inspired me. Now on to root cellars. Anybody got one, use one? I always leave my carrots in the ground until I need 'em. (About five left from my April sowing out there now.) I'd prefer to pull them, but I fear stuffing them in a box of sawdust in the basement. But when I leave them in the bugs get to them more. What do people do?

Funny thing is Larry that Jay felt the need to hijack a thread about root cellars (Which are really cool!) to teach the locavores a lesson with data from the EU and an Op/Ed piece while projecting his prejudice about them being elitist. None of Jay's data goes to support this argument. The data only goes to state that the supply chain creates less pollution than once the produce enters your kitchen. Speaking of which: An argument for root cellars of which this thread was started about. Also an argument for backyard gardening because it reduces the need for refrigeration reducing the need for a larger refrigerator, and therefore reducing the amount of electricity the refrigerator uses. Not that Jay has provided data to prove otherwise. However, it is hard to argue that a train traveling from Central Washington carrying apples to markets in Seattle uses less fuel than a train from Upstate New York traveling to Seattle to deliver apples. Now the difference may be minimal, but it still exists. As in 1.0 is less than 1.1. Evidence that it does make a difference. True. But reducing that cost and environmental impact of transportation is still a reduction. Don't think anyone is really arguing with this. One reason you can't get bananas from your local CSA. Once again, you haven't provided any supporting data. Although I'd bet many of the locavores would argue that supporting local reduces waste and resource consumption. We all know the big factory farms would rather get subsidies for corn and let the surplus rot than send it to areas in the world where food is needed. Not sure your local farmer has that surplus. I can't believe you made that claim. No impact? That is silly. Once again, if I grow my own garden and benefit from that by say using a smaller (less energy use refrigerator), and less CO2 causing trips to the grocery store there is no impact? Yes, it is possible that the environmental and economic benefits of a backyard garden can be offset by traveling by plane [And since we're on the topic of bulk transport, isn't one flight a year causing less pollution than the 6000 miles I drive each year?] or buying climbing gear. But, I am most likely going to travel and buy gear no matter what, so not having a backyard garden would make my footprint bigger and my wallet thinner. I am just doing what I can to reduce my impact, while still live a life I choose. I do. Thank you. I don't claim I'm a better person, although I am sure there are some out there that do. But you are projecting that image on the locavores as a whole. And without single life to life comparisons, it would be impossible to tell who uses more resources in a lifetime.

What I learned from this thread part two: 1) I am a bad person for cooking my food 2) I am a bad person for using a refrigerator, but the supply chain is not bad for using refrigeration 3) Op/Ed pieces are scientific fact

What I've learned from this thread so far: 1) It is far worse for the environment for me to walk into my back yard and clip a head of broccoli and walk back into my kitchen than... A farm hand drives an internal combustion vehicle into a field to clip heads of broccoli. The broccoli is driven by that same vehicle to a cold (refrigerated) storage facility at the farm awaiting pickup by yet another internal combustion vehicle (with refrigerated trailer) to transport it to a refrigerated distribution facility where it awaits yet another vehicle. That refrigerated internal combustion vehicle then transports the broccoli to a store where it is kept refrigerated until I drive yet another internal combustion vehicle to go purchase it and bring it into my kitchen. 2) The $1.50 I spend on a packet of seeds to have broccoli 1-3 times a week for 12 weeks of the year is more costly than... Driving to the grocery store to purchase a head (or 2 or 3)of organic broccoli for at least $0.99/lb. each for twelve weeks. 3) That the electricity I use (~90% hydro) to heat said broccoli puts more CO2 into the air than... A farm hand drives an internal combustion vehicle into a field to clip a heads of broccoli. The broccoli is driven by that same vehicle to a cold (refrigerated) storage facility at the farm awaiting pickup by yet another internal combustion vehicle (with refrigerated trailer) to transport it to a refrigerated distribution facility where it awaits yet another vehicle. That refrigerated internal combustion vehicle then transports the broccoli to a store where it is kept refrigerated until I drive yet another internal combustion vehicle to go purchase it and bring it into my kitchen. 4) Root vegetables are boutique cuisine. 6) Studies done in Europe using their supply chain, cooking methods and electric grid can be directly applied to the US. Did I miss anything?

Alpental Falls look in?

I think the social responsibility is going out into the wilderness with the knowledge not to F it up more. Nobody needs to pay for that. Interesting how this discussion started with cairns near SEWS, and has turned into huts etc. I can't say I'm in favor of a hut anywhere in Washington. I don't see how it would really manage ecosystem destruction in most places. Unless of course say in Boston Basin you had a hut and it was required to stay in the hut. Otherwise you'll have people not wanting to stay there and setting up rock walls to surround their tents. Then you have both eyesores, a hut and rock walls. Multiple trails in that area are due to people seeking safer locations to cross the creek. Can't cut that down without a bridge of some sort I'd say... (Not advocating for a bridge, but if you want people to cross in only one location, I don't see another way.) I think some people had some great points on here about multiple trails getting worn into alpine meadows. Some times the trail on snow if different than the one on exposed meadow. People keep on the snow until there is a melted section and then they tramp over the meadow to the next patch of snow. The party following their footsteps in the snow does the same... This is one thing that RNP does attempt to fix with numerous bamboo wands and signs... Only this erosion happens in far more places than near Paradise. I think more or better toilets, and obvious or signed toilets would be helpful too. To use Dane's example of Vantage, a lot of that mess comes from people not prepared to deuce in the wild. Then they use an overloaded honey bucket and things go downhill from there. A situation like that would be helped with a permanent solution. As a steward of the land, I go to Vantage and expect to pack out my excrement. The signage at Vantage is pretty helpful and should keep down destruction, but I don't know why it doesn't? Education would go a long way in all of these scenarios. I mean who leaves a turd next to a tree at a belay on the Tooth? I am sure it was someone unprepared for that situation, both education, and equipment. Even with education you'll have some bad apples; those who don't care, or don't care to learn, or navigationally impaired. My two cents.

The pack is fairly new to me, but I wouldn't go so far as to say poor materials. Perhaps a little light for the intended use materials. You have to undo one clip before unzipping the wet access. No biggie. However, if you were carrying an assembled board, then it is a lot trickier. Also more complicated if you are using the sling. I will say the compression system is a little weird. The pack is not ideal, but I haven't found one that was.

Be wary of the BD packs. Some don't fit the standard Voile shovel in the wet pocket. I didn't feel like buying a new shovel when I got a new pack, so I went with the Kode. Also another highlight of the Kode over the BD packs is the neoprene expansion area for the elbow on your hydration bladder. The BD packs don't have this and depending on your bladder, it may give you trouble. On a related note, the Kode will carry a board assembled, or split. Not sure about how the BDs handle an assembled board.

Trip: Three O' Clock Rock - Revolver Date: 9/22/2010 Trip Report: This is more of a shout out to Otto for refurbing the route. We only got to climb the first three pitches due to water on route: [img:left]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_93XPnSTQ19w/TJrM49NmNvI/AAAAAAAALgo/HDRn8fGP1e0/s512/IMG_1520.JPG[/img] Can't wait to try it again when dry. With more traffic Revolver will really clean up. FYI, after two dry days and partly cloudy skies, there were plenty of running seeps on the north buttress. Gear Notes: Blow drier Approach Notes: Approached via 1st pitch of Silent Running moving left after first bolt on second pitch to reach the anchors at the base of the first pitch of Revolver.

We used a new #5. Judging from the OP, he is hoping not to buy a #5, which I'd assume if he was buying one would be new, not old #5. New #4 was a little shaky in the bear hugs.

I'm average. The climbing on the bear hugs was not difficult and was short (10'?) But the cracks don't really take gear smaller than a #5. (There is a spot in the back of the left crack where you can get a #4 in but that is due to a loose flake making up the difference in size.) When entering the bear hugs, you'll have a small cam at your feet IIRC. So depends on how comfortable you are with the climbing. PS, we used the #5 on the flake pitch as well. (Although not needed there.)

Probably not the thread for this (as it is someone's TR...) but... I don't have good approach info other than park and walk toward mountain. (It is literally less than 2 miles from car to summit.) I believe the road is open now, but I am not sure. Not sure what you are looking for in ratings? I'd say all are a Grade I, and snow to 50°. Perhaps some 3rd/4th class rock depending on conditions. (I climbed Lover's Lane in February and there was some WI2 on it as well.) Prefer a rap to a walk off? Most people walk off the other side or return down The Zipper skiing. There are rap slings near the summit on a small tree if you feel the need to rap off the summit. You have to cross the creek, how is decided by the conditions and you. And The Zipper is easily done car to car in 5 hours.

Depending on mounting of the finished product, I'd buy a couple.

I got mine at the OR store.

Gene's got the right description. You rapped into the gully that can be downclimbed. Pic from the top of correct gully: [img:left]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_93XPnSTQ19w/SyU8BCT51LI/AAAAAAAAJHo/zfwRFSZ34mM/s512/IMG_9058.JPG[/img]

Alpental I+IV are running water. From my crappy binoculars, Humpback looks blue and under snow. But, hard to tell for sure the health of it.

That's sleeping in the car, not in a tent right?

I'm hoping to be in the area Nordic skiing for a few days. Looking to go cheap and not needing 4-star accommodations. Wondering if there is cheap or free car camping in the area? Of course the national forest says all their campgrounds are closed, but are they accessible? (Many Washington campgrounds are similar, but you can often park a car off the road and walk in a bit.) I don't expect water or open bathrooms, but if there is an independent campground that would be good too. Thanks.

How did Lover's Lane look?

Too much traffic? That argument has no weight. You can skin all day on the other side of the highway, no problem. A major snowshoe hiking area too. So a few extra skinners isn't a traffic issue. As far as the unregulated lift, well that could be a reason all of the resorts have. Many upper lifts at the resorts are unregulated and if you skin in to them you can ride them all day without paying. I can see this as a reason the resorts are fighting for uphill closures. I totally oppose an uphill pass. On another note, Alpental bombs the valley. Which is not part of the ski area. (I haven't been to Bachelor, but I believe the upper bowl is not either.) Many guidebooks advise you to talk to Alpental Ski Patrol before doing fun things up the valley in case they are doing avy work. You know, so you don't get shelled. If this was truly an issue with avy work safety, then us skinners should be proactive and check with ski patrol before heading up. (Hey, I'm like you, I don't wanna tell the cops I am going out to break the law either but...) The patrollers I've met usually are not bad people. They might be miffed because you got first tracks and they didn't. But perhaps if we are more proactive, they won't think we are poaching lifts etc. and it may cut down on restrictions.