Wastral

Lets see, 1:8 who climb Everest Die on Everest. Its far worse on K2. Statistics for climbing Mt. Si, well its WAAAAAAY down the list. There is climbing and then there is CLIMBING. In between the two extremes, where at one end(mt. si) Stupidity rules for killing yourslef, the other end Everest, luck/patience rules for death statistic. In between skill takes a larger and larger % in said chance of dieing. I won't be climbing Everest or K2 anytime soon. I prefer living. Will I routinely go mountaineer backpacking? Moderate fifth class +glaciers with quite a bit of 4th/3rd and easy strolling thrown in? Yes. Does this increase my odds of dieing? Yea as a major odds of death is SLIP on rock due to loose crud. Would be better off vertical rock climbing in regards to actually dieing %. Is there skill in driving? Yes. Though most deaths in driving are a) not your fault and b) folks who survived never saw it coming.

Here is part of what I was remembering: http://climbinglife.com/tech-tips/ropes-dont-break.html http://theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/About_Ageing_of_Climbing_Ropes.pdf Replace those climbing slings boys and keep using the rope! Beal says 15 years on their website. http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/technicite-corde-page.php#dureevie Here UIAA: http://www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Conference_on_nylon_and_ropes.pdf Basically says its the amounts its been climbed on and had nothing to do with how old the rope is. Look up the bulletin to get specifics its not on the web from what I can see though. Guys at Marmot behind the climbing counter, Gary? I think? would have it. Anyways, its not the age anymore, its the amount of use. Use those ropes and feel good doing it. I would trust those unused ropes far more than some of the ropes I have seen folks using even though they were less than 5 years old. Brian

Old nylon going brittle USED TO BE TRUE. It certainly is not anymore. They have learned to place more "plasticizers" in the nylon therefore increasing its life. Nylon ropes still degrade over time though. I would be interested to find out at what age modern nylon ropes actually lose 25% of their strength. I would be astonished if it wasn't 20-25 years. If its not, then said rope manufacturers are going cheep on the nylon quality. It used to be that in airplanes that all nylon parts had to be replaced every 5-10 years. Now due to modern plasticizers, no one even bothers replacing them unless its due to wear. Its certainly not a strength problem or brittle problem anymore. I would feel just fine leading on a 14 year old rope. If you are actively pushing yourself and take very frequent falls, then you are probably going to go with a larger diameter rope anyways as you don't like to buy lots of ropes or take 2 with your. For Alpine, those ropes are fine. They have had 0 UV on them right? No battery acid right? That is what I would be worried about. Forget the age of the ropes. I would be worried they had some contaminant dumped all over them and then "cleaned" and put back to make them look "new".

Since you are from the E. Coast, your off trail skills are probably lacking as well? We have lots of peaks that require off trail work. Black Peak. Some scrambling at the top. 14 miles RT 5000 vertical. HWY 20. Awesome view of North Aspects of peaks. Don't have to go to the top to get the awesome view either. I note that the suggestions given do not fall into your 8-10 miles. In fact, off the top of my head I know of 0, nada, zilch summits that fit this bill of sale. Other than extreme vertical like Colonial Peak with its 7000 vertical. But even that I would bet quite a bit is more like 14 miles RT. Another machismo award peak to do in a day is W. McMillian at 7000+ vertical and about 14miles RT. The kicker is that you don't want rock climbing/scrambling... Good luck in he N. Cascades on that one. Mt. Thornton comes to mind as a possibility. Even that is 10 miles and 4500 vertical. Hidden Lakes Peak also comes to mind as there is a road to 3000? and "only" 4000 vertical. Magic Mountain 5000 vertical and approx 12 Miles RT. True top requires 4th class, but sub false summit all of 10 feet lower is 2nd class. Sahale is a trail and you don't "have" to go to the true top top to get amazing views. That would satisfy around 10miles RT. Vertical is 6000 vertical to the true top. Some say last few feet is class 4. I disagree, but hey to each their own. I am sure there are a few more that I seem to be glazing over. Could just drive to Rainy pass get out of the car and hike either to Heather/Maple or Cuthroat pass. If going to Cuthroat pass keep going a ways till the PCT goes to its high point above granite pass. 6900 whereas Cuthroat is at 6700. That would satisfy your 10 miles. If the Suiattle river road gets fixed, then going up Green Mountain is a great option. Though Hell on a hot day as its all in the open alpine meadow.

The biggest problem with National Parks is the permit process. That and $$$ wished for overnight camping when its supposed to be a public venue for poor and the rich. Just try pricing a week backpack trip in the Olympics. You get sticker shock at the counter and quickly decide to go elsewhere as the thieves suck you dry for a stupid camping "permits". 1) The fact it exists when 95% of the camping sites don't need it as there is a tiny population 2) Areas that do need it the NP service limits to miniscule absurd numbers of people. 3) Because of 1)&2) Everyone lies at the counter through their proverbial teeth. If a ranger finds them, they go... OOOPS. So sorry. 4) The ludicrousness of them issuing permits for areas like the Pickets and to camp at certain locations on a certain day when its utterly dependent on weather. Last time I went I lied through my proverbial teeth by selecting an area no one ever went and said I would camp 7 days there. Crescent Creek Basin as I recall or it was the one on the other side of Goodell Creek. Mt. Despair area. PS. I was in the pickets for 10 days of outstanding weather, saw 0 people. 2 boot tracks 2 weeks old near Luna. PPS. IF they want user statistics, fine. Requiring "permit" for certain days is beyond stupid. Maybe for a season or month would be more appropriate. Along with the stupidity of designated camping sites which you don't want to camp at as the idiots put sharp gravel down where your tent is supposed to go...(Glacier National Park, Yosemite, Grand Canyon etc) Never had such "problem" in North Cascades, but then I never camp at designated camping sites as I don't like mice.

Heck, that speed ascent is nothing. I can blaze up the Eiger on Google earth in 3 minutes flat... 2 of which are loading the program.

Ok, you are right. I screwed up. It was originally all wished as Wilderness area. Oops sorry. What they got was Glacier Peak Wilderness Area instead instead of the proposed North Cascades Wilderness Area. Mainly due to infighting about the incorporation of Ross Lake Area and competing interests in that region. They still wanted that whole area as wilderness but due to Ross Lake Area the best they got was NCNP which eventually became a wilderness area.

This is the exact question posed when NCNP was first created. It is also the reason that Glacier Peak Wilderness Area was created. GPWA was designated as WILDERNESS and thus subject to NO development whereas National parks can be developed for any reason. Bob/Ira Spring along with Harvey Manning and company fought hard to get the Glacier Peak Wilderness Area EXCLUDED from the North Cascades National Park as at that time the WHOLE area was up for inclusion as the National Park. Quite humorous. All National Park status will do is create more damned permits and fees we the common people have to pay so a couple of high school drop outs can man a desk at a park office or clean the toilets at the trailheads while hassling us for our day-overnight camping permits. We the common people get screwed by more regulations making the wilderness less user friendly at a time when national park attendence is dropping drastically. Is any section in said proposed area overused? NO. Will any section ever be? Maybe. Would the Methow or equivalent ranger section be any worse to work through than the Leavenworth ranger station as done in the Enchantments? NO. So, why are we putting this into the hands of the national park? Just to make our lives Hell it seems. Boils down to some nit wit moron environmentalist who wastes their time all day going after things that don't improve our lives or the world but just makes them worse and makes them feel like they are actually doing something good when in actuality they are screwing the common Joe over and the environment. Idiots Unite!

So, they aren't going by rating as you have JBerg, S. Hozemeen, and West Fury on there. All three of them are class 4 and below by their easiest route. I would put Chimney Rock on there. Its harder than Gunsight. Gunsight is 5.0 by its easiest route. Chimney rock by its easiest route requires stemming for a long ways, 120ft, in its North 4ft wide DEEP chimney. Not sure how on earth stemming a chimney is considered class 4 in Becky world, but in most folks world its 5.0+ Obviously there are many peaks that are far harder than class 4 on their top portions that did not make the list. I can think of several off the top of my head that would be "harder" than JBerg, S. Hozemeen, and W. Fury. Heck Challenger in the Pickets is "harder". So is Terror, let alone bruisers like E. McMillian. Dark is 5.0+. Bears Breast is 5.0. Spire is 5.0. Gunsight is 5.0. Forbidden is harder than JBerg in the same proximity. Where is Goode on that list? It has 5.0 on its easiest route as well. Surely there are several in the Enchantments that are harder than 5.0 by their easiest route! Redoubt has class 5 on it, though very short. Probably about equivalent to JBERG. I believe Tushpin is 5.0 or greater as well. These peaks are all off the top of my head very early in the morning. Enjoy. I am sure I missed several.

Nope, not the last. I do that on all 3rd/4th class terrain. Even low 5th. Super fast, but then on such terrain we are always simulclimbing anyways, so its more of a 3rd turns into low 5th quickly and it makes a great belay point for a rest or what not.

Ok, it works like this. 2 people. 1st guy down goes down the big line. 2nd hold knot from moving if needed. 1st guy down take end of small line and ties it off(bight through biner to a piece of pro) is sufficient typically can do figure 8 as well as its safer but harder to untie. Note 1st guy down typically MUST carry the rack to tie off small line. 2nd guy down rappels big line. Pull small line. This is if you are not sure that the knot will not go through the rappel anchor or if you have insufficient sling material to create a proper anchor etc. Just an FYI. Quite often when doing this I don't even bother to watch the anchor but as rote simply tie off before 2nd comes down. A whole pile of hard yanks lets the 2nd know bottom guy has it tied off. PS. For small line non tanglements when throwing. A throw bag from Silnylon is wonderful. Or conversely the 1st guy down can simply carry said throw bag and let it uncoil out of bag if its lower angle stuff. This method is HIGHLY recommended.

17-4 if used in the above statement for their crampons is a crappy material to make a wear component out of. Its soft with poor wear characteristics. If you want wear resistance DO NOT use Stainless steel of ANY type, period. Any Chromolly steel or Vanadium bearing steel will be far superior. Don't waste your money on crappy Stainless Steel crampons. Unless of course you like buying crampons sooner. Any high end steel will outperform ALL types of stainless steel for wear. Only reason they are trying to use SS in their crampons is because it looks shiny on the shelf so the uninformed buyers will go "OOOOOoooooo, SHINY!"

I suggest reading The Waddington Guide by Don Serl to fill you in on whats what in that range and to get your knickers in a twist hopping to go back. Every peak there has been climbed. There are a few routes that might not have been on certain faces, otherwise its all been climbed. Now the glaciers could have moved creating impossible barriers like when I was up on Jubilee with its super low snow year, otherwise...

Oh, man, I am jealous! Last time I was up there we had NO snow load, crevasses open everywhere, and a huge storm dumping many feet of snow on us without snowshoes... ug. And my brother broke his toe on the way in...

I put minimum for true glacier travel at 150feet or 50m. I could see taking a 100 foot(35m) rope if one is only worried about bergshrunds/moats. Kinda the definition of super moderate eh? Yes, I take 100 foot half rope with me when I expect to need a rappel line, but real glaciers? Not a chance. Have you actually placed your 35m rope with 2 guys on it and actually put one guy in a crevasse and tried to actually get the guy out with only a 35m rope? Good luck. It better be the worlds smallest crevasse. I tried it. It doesn't work with 2 person team when only 30 feet apart, as you not only have to catch their fall taking up rope length between you, but you also can't be on the edge of a crevasse either as you can't set up a system. Yea, yea, most common fall in a crevasse is up to your armpits, but for that you only need a 10 foot rope to pull them out so why not cut it down to 20 feet and save more weight! Of course you aren't carrying the rope for falls/spills that make you laugh. You only carry it because you are serious. One can "theoretically" do it with a 3 person team, assuming 2 guys didn't fall in the crevasse and the middle guy is anchoring the fallen climber in ALL scenarios. This simply isn't true. In short you are kidding your self into believing you are safe, when in fact you are not except only part of the time. I bet you never have actually tested with a 35m rope. If you have it was probably as a test scenario without any crevasses in sight on grass. If you do fall in, it better be a minnow crevasse without any crevasses nearby. When does that ever happen? Never. Crevasses you will actually fall in nearly always come in bunches except of course the bergshrund. IE your rope "team" will have to span/cross multiple small crevasses and in larger terrain, sometimes 2 large crevasses. If you take a rope at all, then make sure it will address ALL crevasse fall situations, not just the stupid and mundane. If just the stupid and mundane, then 6mm nylon is perfectly good and weights a hell of a lot less. Better yet, get 3-4mm UHDPE and save even more weight. I know a guy who takes 2.5mm UHDPE as rappel line. Keep expecting to find him dead somewhere too. PS. Consensus for steeper stuff seems to be 8mm or so twin ropes due to the hazard of ice fall.

I will admit that my definition of what a beginner climber is someone who has been backpacking several times before and wants to expand their interests into off trail and mountain climbing. I am not looking at someone who has never even gone camping before. Erm NOT car 'camping'. Yes, I have run into/taken beginners who think a 30 degree slope is death itself without a hand rail, harness, and rope. I handed two guys from the east coast an ice axe, pulled mine out and threw myself down the slope with a pack on on my back head first and then self arrested. I then walked back up, grinned, showed them the easy way to self arrest, let them "fall a couple times", and then "accidently" pushed them over. After much caterwalling, they soon grinned ear to ear realizing that 30 degrees was not death itself, but rather fun and tame. We then proceeded to climb, Buck/Liberty Cap/Maude/7FJ/Carne. Unfortunetly we missed Fortress/Chiwawa because the guys didn't believe me when I told them their packs a) didn't fit him right and b) had to much CRAP in it. After Buck Mtn, we went back to the car and both guys promptly threw a collective 40lbs of crap out of their packs as they finally believed me on what I was telling them all along that NO, they did not need colored pens/pencils/pads of paper/full bottles of Ibuprofen/9 pairs of socks/Super heavy Dry BAGs used in Kayaks/2 5lb bags of Glorp!/Rain Tarps for their tents/3 pairs of Pants & shirts/binoculars/cellphones/3 rolls of athletic tape/hand axe and I forget what other travesties were in their packs, but I am not BS'ing about the crap they took either. I mean colored pens & pencils and a FULL pad of paper that must have weighed 2lbs! No kidding! They both naturally claimed to have been backpacking many times before and in shape to boot. These guys were utter newbies who didn't even know how to hike and they handled class 3 stuff. Were they fast? No. These guys also do not meet my criteria of a beginner mountaineer either as they didn't have a clue about backpacking. My beginner definition is also not stupid enough to not take a map and compass.

I think too many experienced climbers make their "hobby" larger than life and "badder" than it really is to "newbies" and folks outside the sport making themselves feel bigger than reality. I have run into this a bit, unfortunately mostly from folks out of the "organized" climbing community like the Mountaineers etc who believe you have to carry your 10 essentials and carry 100 certificates to walk on a trail, let alone Dare to climb a mountain without a trail to the top! AGMA folks I have never had this attitude from I will say. I can't believe I am hearing this from most of the posters here. Is everything in this world dangerous to most of you and therefore should be avoided unless a million safety precautions and warnings are attached? I say, ditch the safety folks in their nanny white padded state prison cells and live. I'll stay with my statement about the near impossible ability to get lost in the N. Cascades. Yes, you can get lost if you never look at a map in unfamiliar territory and never use a compass if you are a complete idiot. AKA they are oblivious. Who wouldn't? That just proves there are idiots in this world. Feeling you have to post warnings to prospective newbies that walking into unfamiliar territory could cause you to get lost is ludicrous. What are they 10 years old and you their nanny? Common sense? I have never been lost even as a 14 year old running in the square miles of woods we used to have here on Grand Ridge without a road when we moved out here many years ago. Hitting cliff bands or slide alder because you took an unoptimum path is not being lost. That is simply learning to read a map. So you will be an extra hour or 2 getting to your destination. Big deal that is part of mountaineering, I do that all the time as I don't carry 7.5min quads. Darkness of night? Fact, you can camp anywhere, it doesn't need to be flat, it also does not mean you are lost, just can't judge time very well. <> A couple times I just start hiking at 9PM because that is when I hit the trailhead and then hike without a flashlight for a few hours and crash in the bushes with a tarp. Never carried a tent till the age of 26, couldn't afford one. PS. Tents REALLY limit ones perspective of where you can "camp". I would recommend to Every newbie to never carry a tent unless you plan to always camp above treeline on snow which happens actually fairly rarely here in Washington. Better yet, bring hiking poles and a tarp and then you can camp without trees/bushes even on snow. Pretty much outside of spots in CA/NV/Idaho/Wyoming and up north, there really is no wilderness where you can get lost to such an extent that you can't find a road or see city lights in which to walk towards in 2-3 days of moderate travel. The cascades? Hardly, surrounded by roads and myriads of trails with a billion signs compared to many other western states. I would think anyone born before 1900 out west would laugh their ass off at our definition of "wilderness" and getting "lost" as posted on this site. Bottom line: Think ahead(bring a tarp, warm clothes) be prudent. Know yourself. Above all, enjoy yourself. If that means 8 Mile days with pancakes/cornbread and coffee every time you wake up while carrying steak and charcoal along with a grill for lunch/dinner with hot cocoa at night fixing jello or pudding for a dessert, be my guest. PS, solo climbers aren't going to be on volcanoes with glaciers in a white out. A very few rare folks do. They also wind up dead in Large numbers as is shown by history. PPS, Instead of enacting a discovery pass, quit mowing the damned grass and I bet they would have tons of cash to keep the parks open. All this stupid pass will do is force the poor away from the parks. When Lake Samammish state park had the $5/day pass less than 50% showed up when the fee was in place. Now, they want $8? or is it $10/day. I bet user percentage state wide will drop well over 50%. Take a quick look at people in the parks and it is generally the poor/lower classes who go to the parks to start with, not those who can afford the money. So, much for "public" parks and Public access freely accessible to all. PPPS. My competence level when wanting a rope is not higher than yours Fairweather, class 4 for sure, class 3 sometimes, though I have gone sans before when its not chossy, though typically we are simulclimbing if on such territory. I would argue in many instances that a rope is actually more dangerous on class 3/4 terrain. Also gives a false sense of security unless used properly and will simply cause 2 people to die instead of one. ESPECIALLY if they are a newbie. I would recommend NO rope except to be used as a repel line. Newbies and ropes should start by pitching it out then learning simul-climbing. If they aren't going to pitch it out, then go sans rope and learn the #1 rule of mountaineering, DO NOT SLIP, move slow. PPPPS. I was paraphrasing the common definition of 3rd 4th class where 3rd is that most folks will want a rope into what it truly means. Obviously, you can die by falling a mere few less than 10 feet and land on your head/neck. Under that definition, class 2 should also be roped travel. Like anything there are wide areas of leeway in the definition. Only thing really clear cut in my mind is 1st class and 4th and above.

I know this is the internet so that automatically means that no one can read intelligently, but I posted what I thought in the first BLEEPING LINE. It says, for those who can't read, which seems to be all three of you yoho's, sorry, maybe just Matt, "up to Class 4". Anyone with an ounce of reading acquity knows this means CLASS 3. Class 3 definition is, you fall you survive, whereas Class 4 is you fall you die. You can have low 5th moves on class 3. Like climbing to the notch on the tooth, not the climb itself. Most newbies think Class 3 is around 5. They also think a 45 degree slope is more like 70 or nearly a cliff. I have run into very few newbies who ever overestimated themselves on any real class 3 terrain. Those who did overestimate themselves it didn't matter what you said, they were going Hell or high water. The OP, here is getting a guide for Sahale... Says where his confidence level is, a bit lower than 'normal.' Sorry, for tone, but common, a little reading comprehension, jimminy crickets guys. PS. Class 3/4 is where most rockfall accidents happen as well. Almost killed my brother going over Himmelhorn-Ottohorn col in class 3 territory. Class 5 rockfall is generally small rocks, that most certainly hurt, but won't kill if you wear a helmet. PPS. Any solo climber who doesn't take emergency rappel chord/rope is brain dead. Like 6mm line. Not ok to climb on, but ok to rappel GENTLY on.

I am of the opinion that all mountains up to Class 4 are readily doable by the solo beginning climber. As you gain climbing experience higher rating is doable. As for route finding, this comes with experience by simply DOING. Being afraid of getting "lost" just makes the problem worse. Personally, mountains are the perfect place to learn with Obvious big valley you walked in on everywhere due to glaciers scouring them deeper and larger. Only way to truly get "lost" is to not bring a map and not pay attention. Typical city slickers who never grew up in the woods have problems getting "lost" as they haven't trained their mind to "remember" "waypoints". I have found nearly everyone who grew up in the woods doesn't have any problems at all getting lost. Exceptions of course. Nearly everything I do is off-trail from dense forest to glacier. Big Glaciers, I suppose wands could be nice, but I have never used them because you would need an unGodly number of them. GPS, haven't used but I can easily see how it would be VERY nice with the backtrack ability especially in say E.USA or on Glaciers during a whiteout. Honestly if you manage to get lost in the Cascades with its DEEP OBVIOUS valleys and very precise ridges/mountains, one would have to be truly oblivious to the world from the moment you stepped from the car in order to get lost.

Yes. Couple of times. Going in took 12 hours for 14 miles. Out took a mere 3.5 hours. Ain't gravity nice? Worst part is the burn part for the first 1.5 miles and the avalanche slide area right where the trail goes UP at the head of the valley. Otherwise its simply follow your nose up valley. The upper valley section is for the most part still there. As I said before, the upper upper section is nearly nonexistent, but its not exactly hard walking through open forest and following gravity downward. It is smart to follow the orange flagging though.

I have the Event thru hiker, good jacket take it Kayaking/boating all the time. Like every rain jacket that "breathes" it is nearly useless for anything other than VERY cold weather as you will sweat it out and anything under it VERY quickly unless you are moving the speed of a snail, or are one of a VERY few folks who produce NO heat and no sweat. That is why I take and use a wind shell. If its raining you aren't climbing as its miserable and frankly stupid and unsafe. You are sitting in camp or retreating. If retreating through brush I put the Event bugger on, if I have it, and unzip the front. Keeps me "dry". Otherwise use in blowing snow, but even then a windshirt is preferable not to mention lighter and cheaper. Wind shirts come treated as well. While not being "waterproof", they are highly water resistant. You will have to reapply said DWR occasionally more often than on an EVENT or GORE shell I have found.

Don't forget that Suittle River Road is blocked at MP 12. That is a tidy extra 10 miles of road walking. Might be better off to hit Dome peak then backtrack down the S. Cascade River. The trail is still there though hard to find. Follow the orange flags. The upper section is nearly completely gone though. Only very small traces can be found on upper. Lower goes from decent to brush covered. Or go in from Chelan side and go out via gunsight and Hanging gardens.

Saw 2 grizzles on the north side of miners ridge 8 years ago gorging themselves on huckleberries. Same day nearly had a black bear run me down as it was loping down miners ridge to the next huckleberry patch. Needless to say, we both SWERVED aside quite quickly. Not afraid of bears. Just moron humans. Plenty of those around FAR closer to home.

Helens doesn't have glaciers, well there is one inside the crater that formed after the eruption, but... What took you a couple hours to climb will take a few minutes to descend if you decide to run it or glissade. Its quite mellow. You don't really need the ice axe except if one hits a cold spell and it becomes icy. IN july I don't think I would even bother taking crampons. Just wait an hour and it will turn to mush and off you go. If its typical mush you would rather have treking poles as well.

Its a super heavy snow year, what more do you need to know? Everything is a month behind. This time of year it varies by the time of day more than anything else if you actually get high enough that is.