StevenSeagal

Also, I might add that the democrats biggest problem is once again made obvious: they encompass such a wide variety of views within their party that when they get into power, all they do is fight amongst each other in addition to having to fight with conservatives, and so nothing is accomplished. Despite your assertion that Obama is "lying", I think Obama is one of the more honest and straightforward members of his party. It's the Pelosi/Frank/Reid juggernaut of ideology that is the achilles heel of the dems and in the end will be their downfall.

Legitimate questions, all. While you and many others may like your current coverage, the fact remains that the status quo cannot continue- costs are outrageous. I don't really know how a public option will play out; I think by itself a public option alongside all the existing private options might work for everyone, but if it's really the "first step" then that might be a problem, because I don't think eradicating private sector coverage would be a good thing at all. More to the point the current system of total control by powerful insurance companies isn't in our best long term interest, nor is an entirely government controlled system. But the way we are going, the former is what we're going to keep on getting if current reforms are defeated. When they are- you watch. I almost guarantee that insurance premiums, along with costs, will go through the roof. Because they can. As a dyed in the wool conservative, who is happy with his coverage, I'm curious if you there is any problem at all, and if so, what do you think should be done to fix it?

Barney Frank is a douche, I'll grant you that much.

"desperate" is the concerning, operative word.

sounds like grassroots with some heavy duty fertilizer! Miracle Gro?

So I take it you are all for this new policy because of the originator? I have nothing to hide, the gov. knows everything there is to know about me. Just wondered if there would be the outrage that there was when Bush was pulling this kinda shit. Guess I was right. No, my quote was exactly the response given by conservatives to those who raised concerns when the Bush admin wanted to eavesdrop on American citizens and tap phones. For the record I think it's completely legitimate, warranted in fact, to question what the Obama admin intends to do with the information it's requesting, but the context of the issue is a bit different in this case. I admit I'm skeptical of the Obama health care proposals but I do want to see something pass that addresses the problems with the system. The Republicans clearly have nothing to offer on the issue, and they know they are in the minority both in government and in public opinion, so it has become clear that their one and only tactic is to obstruct the issue by any means possible, including the dissemination of false and misleading information and to disrupt any effort at discussion- not with "concerned questions" but by screaming and shouting people down at town hall meetings and using the media to fan the flames. I listened to a bit of the psychotic right wing talk radio last week before this all got rolling and they were playing over and over the audio tape of the first town hall meeting that had this issue, one in Missouri where a small group of people screamed insults and shouted down a US Representative and other citizens. The radio hosts: 1) played this repeatedly as both an "example of how angry the American people are" (pegging this small group of 10 or less as representative of the entire popular opinion) and 2) fervently encouraged listeners to go to these meetings and do the same thing, essentially, to prevent any sort of rational discussion and "send your congressman a message". The tape sounded like the stereotypical angry mob with pitchforks. Since it's exceedingly obvious that right wing talk radio hosts like Limbaugh and Hannity control and dictate Republican party talking points and policy- since nobody with an R next to their name dares criticize them lest they be smeared the following day for three hours on the airwaves in front of 20 million gaped-jawed adoring fans- essentially this was a Republican party trick despite all the smokescreen being thrown about the last few days trying to pretend this is a "grassroots movement". And further, the same media demagogues are crucifying Obama for encouraging supporters to also attend rallies and counter the conservative groups under the guise that the government has no business trying to rally support for it's policy proposals. Again, I'm not convinced that Obama's health care proposals are realistic but the one thing I'm sure about is that the Republicans are using totally disingenuous tactics to prevent anything from happening at all. Today I heard that Obama intends to "euthanize the elderly", "exterminate the mentally ill", and "encourage or require pregnant women to have abortions". And you wonder why people are so confused? So in the end, the whole discussion is now fucked. There was actual pushing and shoving at several meetings today and I will not be the least bit surprised if things start to turn violent. Nor will I be surprised when Limbaugh and the other radio douchebags from whom an alarming number of folks consider "news sources" attempt to blame the entire thing upon Obama and democrats. I think the only chance conservative values have of being fairly represented in this country will involve an utter marginalization of the psycho media arm of your party that has hijacked your movement. Unless of course you feel that raving nutjob Glenn Beck speaks for you, in which case maybe you should consider seeing a shrink.

wtf? seriously, are you insane, as ivan says? you ARE a grave-robber: you go and dig up people's remains and cart them off for your own purposes ("well-published" author, teaching, etc). you rilly think the egyptians would be down with your gig? cuckoo, cuckoo. Get siked about sport-climbing and forget about the dead bodies, willya? :lmao: :lmao:

Ok Raindawg then Is there a graverobbing website where we can say that you can't climb jack shit?

No man...when it's about climbing, it's fair game...when it comes to one's personal life, it shouldn't be on the table. Look, gramps woke up from his nap! Hey Super-Youngster with all them new-fangled thoughtless persectives on climbing! We'd discuss this all on the summit of Rainier...if you could get there. oh, now we're including hiking in this discussion?

Raindouche is out there right now, searching for new clown photos. Oops, did I just start sumpin' again?

better wake up before the red horde comes for you, too, Boxer.

If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about. Sound familiar?

It doesn't matter to a fanatic. ideologues can't be reasoned with and will eat their own young if they have to in order to assert themselves. Like religion. plenty of religious folks keep to themselves, or will speak their mind when asked and not force their views on you unlike Raindawg huh. I thought we asked raindawg to explain all his views for us. Because we weren't clear on them and we needed guidance on ethics and morals!

It doesn't matter to a fanatic. ideologues can't be reasoned with and will eat their own young if they have to in order to assert themselves. Like religion.

Better to die than weight the rope, everyone. Best tell your loved ones to prepare to celebrate your imminent martyrdom.

In honor of Johnny (he liked it when I called him that, that was just between us friends) I declare the new purest ethic is if you fall while leading, the only fair means of ascent is free solo, or else you're Richard Simmons.

Oh no no no, you're wrong Lance, climbing is about cheating death and being special, haven't you been paying attention? In fact, climbing is about what I say it is, not what you say it is. believe whatever you want off, I know I'm right and if you can't see that, it's your loss!

Wow, it's Jesus Christ incarnate. Don't shoot the messenger, everyone, he's just telling us the TRUTH! It's up to us to choose between good and evil. So do your converts stay at your Guyanan plantation full time or part time? Scared of IDEAS??? Reject them if you want! You act as if you're being forced to accept them. Don't even want to read this stuff because it's just so darn annoying????? Easy solution! You see the name "Raindawg" attached to the post...scroll on by! buh by! Not scared of ideas, but ideologues are another story. Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler were full of IDEAS too.*** ***just figured this thread didn't yet have a stupid Nazi reference. Thank you for allow washed up actor to perpetuate innane thread through Friday!

Wow, it's Jesus Christ incarnate. Don't shoot the messenger, everyone, he's just telling us the TRUTH! It's up to us to choose between good and evil. So do your converts stay at your Guyanan plantation full time or part time?

...and crying a river of martyrdom when your poo gets flung back in YOUR face.

There's still several installed for top ropes at the top of the three tallest walls there, dawg. I guess if you were capable of climbing that high you would have seen them, they've always been there. But oh well. Keep practicing.

Hey what happened to "General Zod"?

:ass: :ass: stfu stfu stfu stfu

I agree. I'll also comment that the PNW is filled with folks for whom alpine is their real deal and clearly lots of them are ambivalent about the rest of it when they aren't in the mountainsalso noted over the decades of being here that more than a few alpine guys are balls out friggin' crazy when they get on rock - they take lots of big risks that don't always seem well-advised, place some pretty scary gear, and style points are pretty much irrelevant from the get go. That in no way is an across-the-board observation or generalization of all alpine folks - just a higher percentage of scary sketch than you run into with crag-only free climbers in venues like an Eldo or Gunks. Thanks JH- good post Conversely I see an equally proportional number of "crag only" climbers, particularly Coloradoans and Californicators, doing comparatively sketchy shit when they try to take it alpine.

103 in WA, 387 in the NW, and 4,753 in the US (last year's numbers). That's one guess. My guess for 2008 would be more like: 450 OR, 800 NW, 11-13000 US oh shit we forgot about JH. Hey Joe, we're cool, right? Bolts are good and hanging on gear is the purest method, right? Cool!!!