jordansahls

Ha, thanks for the info Sol. He certainly was a life saver for us on this trip. If you happen to see him anytime soon let him know how greatful both Brian and myself (Jordan) are for his generosity. We have a great climbing community around these parts thanks to people like Joe.

I guess if it has to go you might as well send it out in style. Make sure to start a forest fire.

Agreed, I can understand how and why they came to the decision that they did. What doesn't make sense is removing the structure after the fact. It certainly seems that people have forgone common sense in the name of environmental protection and conservation.

Judge ruled in favor of Wilderness Watch. Sorry if this is old news, I couldn't find the old thread. http://www.wildernesswatch.org/issues/index.html#Lookout

Killer deal on an amazing bag, go for it.

Do it, and have a great time. The area is amazing and full of awesome tours, traverses, and any number of ski lines.

I'm certain they would be able to accomadate the items you are talking about. If you get on the Lady of the lake website they have most of the information you need. Each full fare ticket holding individual is allowed 75 lbs of gear at no extra cost. Here is what they say about extra freight: Freight exceeding the weight allowed with ticket purchase is charged at $6.00 per 75 lbs or .75 cents per cubic feet, whichever is greater. For freight exceeding a total weight of 75 lbs, the charge will be $.08 per lb with a minimum charge of $6.00 If any single item requires special handling or exceeds 55 pounds, that piece must be charged at Special Handing rates (see Special Handling) Hope that helps. Also, they are easy to talk to on the phone so give them a call.

Hey Brennan! Thanks for your help and all of the useful information. If you get a chance and you have good conditions you could easily hit the pass in a moderate day from Holden. We took a lot of time getting up and over the pass because of the deep snow and avy conditions. I would think that spring would be an awesome time to hit a number of these spots, but you probably have a better idea of seasonal snow conditions and what would, or would not go.

Sounds like an amazing trip Josh. We had considered trying to hit Ten peak and Clark and coming out the white river road but as you can tell, that did not happen. Really, the crux in the winter is getting from the Lyman lakes/spider gap area over onto Buck creek pass and the Chiwawa ridge area. You just need the conditions. There are so many cool possibilities in the area, it's crazy. I'm looking forward to getting back in the area. I think moving in the reverse direction is the better way to do it.

Aint that the truth. But your right, it was just awesome to get out into such a remote area this time of year. Yeah, I should thank you for your TRs in the area. I used them a bit for the planning stage of this trip. Definitely an amazing area, I will be going back. Yeah, the cornices are a bit unsettling. My partner and I were talking about maybe going back in the spring to do the traverse proper. It seems like you could still ski a fair amount but have better snow conditions for climbing and scrambling.

Trip: Holden to Tall Timber Ranch ski traverse (sort of) - Date: 3/16/2012 Trip Report: This trip was many things, too many for a simple plebian like myself to properly articulate in whimsical, flowing pros. So instead I will give a brief overview of the trip and let the pictures do more of the talking (everyone likes pictures, right?). The Plan: Two of us, Brian and myself, would traverse from Holden to Tall Timbers Ranch by climbing up and around Dumbell, Chiwawa, and Fortress mountains and traveling on the Chiwawa ridge attempting to hit Buck Mountain and some of the lesser peaks until we hit Schaefer lake, at which point we would ski a prominent couloir on the west side of the ridge down into the Nepeequa valley and out to our truck. What actually Happened: It took us longer than expected to make it to Dumbell lake due to deep, unstable snow. We spent an extra day in the tent waiting for the sun to bake and solidify the slopes leading up to Dumbell pass. Eventually we were able to ski up and over dumbbell pass. We had originally thought we could summit a number of the peaks, which are simple class 3-4 scrambles in the summer, but were corniced death pits at the time. This should not have come as a surprise but I think we had convinced ourselves that it would go, which was not the case. We skied down into the basin on the north side of Dumbell in deep, amazing powder. We then proceeded to skin up to the ridge on the West side of the basin over to Spider gap. The next obstacle was getting around Phelps ridge. We managed to find a ledge system up high on the East face that lead to a weakness in the South ridge. It was steep, unstable snow. We were very happy to be done with that section. However, we could not see a feasible way across to Chiwawa that did not involve traveling on more steep avy prone terrain. We eventually decided to drop down from the ridge into the upper Chiwawa basin. We had around 3k of amazing skiing. We thought that we could drop south towards Trinity and hit the trail up to Buck creek pass which would put us back on the ridge in more mellow terrain. That night it snowed 14 inches. The snow down low was already deep and made for slow going. Brian and I talked about our options. We both agreed that it would take us a whole day to get to Buck Creek pass in the current conditions and we were running out of time. To make a long story short we skied out the entire Chiwawa river road. It was 30 miles of blister inducing drudgery. Definitely not the ending we had in mind for this trip, but such is life and such are the mountains. We were lucky to get a ride back to our car from Joe, the owner of the 59er Diner, and his dog, Milkshake. The guy is awesome. We didn’t even have to stick out our thumbs; he just stopped his car and gave a honk. Seriously, if you find yourself out in the area, go to the 59er Diner and support a local asset to the outdoor community. It that’s not enough, the food is awesome. Thanks Joe! In the end, it was a truly great trip. There is a quote from Dwight D. Eisenhower that sums it up well, “In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensible” I would like to thank the people in Holden who were extremely hospitable and provided us with great information regarding current snow conditions. I would also like to thank the Director of Tall Timber Ranch who was gracious enough to let us park our vehicle in his parking lot for the better part of a week, and of course Joe and Milkshake. Pictures: Route Overview. Red = what we actually did (crappy triangles are camp spots), Black = what we wanted to do. Lake Chelan Holden Crossing the Creek Looking up Big Creek Copper peak from Big Creek Camp at Dumbell lake Some of the views from camp Some more views from camp (notice the avy crown) Brian heading up towards Dumbell pass Brian leading up Me following Looking back towards 7 finger jack and Fernow Me about to crest the pass At the pass, Bonanza in the background Brian starting the ski down Dumbell Me and my ski tracks down Dumbell Off Dumbell and heading towards another ridge above Lyman lakes Looking back at Dumbell. Our line went from the obvious pass down skiers right into the drainage Views from on the ridge heading towards spider gap Brian on the ridge Brian closer to spider gap At spider gap (we went up the bank on the right to gain the ledge system) Sketchy traverse on Phelps ridge Down in Chiwawa basin Lots of this Out Gear Notes: Cheese and sin dog warm clothes skis tent pain Approach Notes: Take the Lady express to Holden

Well, it looks like we may have a better night down here in Seattle tonight (If you can get away from the clouds and city lights). From the Geophysical Institute: A large solar event early on the 7th of March was directly more closely to the Earth-Sun line, and should produce more activity. The debris should reach Earth sometime in the late morning of March 8 GMT. This means that the resulting aurora may be visible late on the night of the 7th/8th from Alaska, but Western Russia, Europe, and the US will probably see activity levels of Kp=5 or greater on the night of March 8/9.

Cool

Awesome climb, really crappy ski. I can remember falling down that whole drainage from mesa lake. God, that sucked. I hope it went better for you than me.

Lots of good info all around. Bigtree, Thanks for the specifics. 6 seems to me to be a difficult number, not only for flight reasons but also because that's a lot of individual schedules that need to align for things to work out, especially this far in advance. I imagine climbing as a team of 2 is much more desirable than 3/3+ so 4 makes a lot more sense to me than 6. $3000 sounds about right. That is the number I keep consistently seeing. Obviously there is going to be some variance on that number but I don't think I can go all that wrong by assuming the price to be around there. Seriously, thanks everyone for the info. It's really helping to clear things up in my mind.

MisterMo, sounds awesome. I enjoy the adventure and have no problem with taking a day or 2 to make an approach/deproach. '74 was a while ago, but who did you fly with? I have checked the Tweedsmuir air service website and they still do many flights in and around the area, but they don't list any of the main lakes (dumbbell, Ephemeron, ect)as destinations. I guess I will have to give them a call. Also, you are right on about the economics of fixed wing vs. helicopter. Tweedsmuir air taxi charges $750 per hr of flight time on a Beaver which is much less than the Bell 206 L-4 long ranger helicopter.

Again, thanks for the information everyone. Rad, I am planning on giving White Saddle a call. I mostly am asking the silly questions now to help organize my thoughts. Don't want to forget anything. John, I have been considering Alaska for a while but the nice thing about the coast range is that it is relativly close and doesn't require the flight to Alaska. If only I wasn't going to grad school in the fall I might be able to justifiy the extra 2k. Oh well, soon enough.

Thanks for the info G-spotter. I see that White Saddle flies a Bell 206 L-4 Long Ranger which has a carrying capacity of around 640kg (with around 45 min of fuel). Don Serl's guide says that flying into the range takes around .7-.9 hours return per flight (not exactly sure what that means). So 10 years ago it was around $1000 per flight hour. Now it's at least double that. So I'm guessing that it's safe to assume costs to be in the range of $3000 for a trip in and out? It also seems like 6 people is a good number. Anyone have any expirience flying by float plane in to dumbell lake or Ephemeron lake? I'm guessing there is a good reason most climbers use White Saddle over other flight options.

I'm thiking about flying in to the Waddington range this summer to get in some climbing and I have a few questions for those who have any expirience in the area. I hear it is best to fly 3 people per helicopter flight so an extra gear run is not required? Has this been peoples expirience? I'm planning on going in with 6 people. Costs (yeah, I know everyone asks about this). I know that the cost of fuel changes constantly but I'm curious as to the average flight costs (pertaining to white saddle air). I hear it's usually about 2,000$ per hour of flight time on average? or somewhere around there. I'm going to shoot white saddle air service an e-mail here soon but I thought It would be better to iron out my questions before hand. the plan in to stay in the area for 2-3 weeks. I'm a noob when it comes to planning anything this big so any advice (or criticism) is appreciated.

I'm waiting to hear back from MSU, UBC and UC Boulder about Grad school. I will be happy to attend any of those universities.

The other knee pain thread has some good info on the IT band. Here are a few videos from a blog that Matt Kidd posted that have some really great info on IT band problems. [video:youtube]Fw81R9jIAHs [video:youtube]2CLXGkE2Y6s [video:youtube]4zlMVXHBasI

I find my Nalgene works in a pinch.

IT band syndrome can be really tricky. Using a foam roller is a great way to relieve acute pain, but is not neccisarily great at correcting underlying biomechanical disfunction. There is a bit of debate regarding conventional wisdom surrounding ITB friction syndrome. The current thought is that ITBS is caused by the lateral rubbing of the lower IT band against the femoral condyle. More recent research has thrown this into question. Not saying that the above things wont work, and they most certainly will make things feel better, but it is essential to address the core issues or things are going to reoccure and cause more frustration. Here is a great article written by an exercise physiologist on the more current research regarding ITBS: http://www.be-fit-now.com/iliotibial-band-syndrome-itbs-myths Here are a couple of links to the research articles referenced in the above link (these are also at the bottom of the above article, worth checking out): Is iliotibial band syndrome really a friction syndrome? http://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440(06)00117-4/abstract The functional anatomy of the iliotibial band during flexion and extension of the knee: implications for understanding iliotibial band syndrome http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100245/ Suspected Mechanisms in the Cause of Overuse Running Injuries: A Clinical Review http://sph.sagepub.com/content/1/3/242.abstract

Yeah....Sorry about that. Me no articulate good.

Well, the extreemist christians have blind devotion and extreem hatred on their side. Rational thinkers don't make the best soldiers so science is lacking there.