Kimmo

never been on it, along with the two other routes you mention. lizard king and oval orifice i'll get on this fall, and perhaps the other you mention, but i've never heard of any significant runouts from people who have climbed them. why are we talking about this again?!?

really? which ones? i can't think of many (any!) routes without a bolt every 6 to 10 feet.

the above has been something i've been indirectly alluding to. without doubt, i enjoy the convenience of permadraws, even whilst having some reservations, but if "we" get too cavalier about their right to exist, we might be facing the same prospects as the aforementioned areas. I'd rather remain low-key about them, and not announce their placement on bulletin boards. most here wouldn't have even known about them without this thread!

as long as it's at the crux of rainy day women.

cuz i'm telling ya, this matter is high on the policy-makers list!

when you remove your previous comment about 5.6 climbers not having informed opinions about the matter, your position seems, well, a little more informed.

little si- along with many other little sport crags littered around the area- is pretty much a conceptual abstraction, with no actual concrete ramifications from a small user group upon larger public interests. i actually bet that, if polled, most hikers going up little si would respond favorably to what they witness from climbers frequenting the area: continually you see hikers stopping to watch climbers ascending WWI, and for good reason: it's pretty cool! I'd just hate to see one-size-fits-all policy decisions because of antipathy and miscommunication between affected parties. or something like that.

this is a pretty myopic view. the larger context here is public land-use policy. everyone has a right to this land; everyone has a right to this land in a way that allows others their rights to this land. this is where the grey area starts to appear....

this debate might get tiresome for many, but it is still a discussion that isn't entirely pointless. public policy changes through discussion (and action), and even a seemingly mundane and idiotic online sequence of the same old same old has the potential to lead to these changes. in other words, it isn't just about little si, as it isn't just about this discussion being a dead horse.

no, not really. it's simply a convenience thing. nothing more, nothing less. one can clip and remove draws off a route of any difficulty. can you cite the "growing number of cases"? i'm honestly curious, since i do have some concern about this. rock and ice? that sporto rag? didn't read it. what it say?

yea work's a tough one. mama workin away from home and having a baby is i think one of those unfortunate developments of "progress".

I do? I don't think there is much study in that arena, at least that I'm aware of!

Entirely unmentioned in this thread so far? Breast-feeding the baby! It's been shown to provide protection to the baby against various illnesses, passing along mother's immunity.

not sure who your reply was directed at. if at me...i'm not necessarily suggesting anything. just read those lines and they kinda worked their way in and i vibed with them. also reminded me of times that i've gotten pissed at people for something that I have a habit of doing. actually quite amazing, the process, when i step back. anger seems to be a good cue for this kinda thing....

absurd. tonite i will be partying in the ego thread.

only if dee wallace is there in person, autographing your dolls. will there be nice red wine?

plus, i thought you had another big run of ET's coming out?

have you seen the cost of health insurance? only the independently wealthy can afford it.

maybe even a space alien.

and a thank-you.

i'd hope to see evidence in the future, big fella.

i didn't realize your ego depended on the popularity of my threads....

catchy!

can you explain it again?

you two are much too close and co-dependent to have the ability to view each other objectively. plus, see my "ego" thread.