JosephH

What's the word on the other 23...?

bump for wayward gear...

As am I. All the placements I'm talking about were small and if I were just talking about good small pro I wouldn't be talking screamers. I've taken six 25' whippers in a row on a good #3 Loweball without a screamer, ditto for falls onto unscreamered small nuts and crack 'n ups that were as bomb as they can be. That's not what I'm talking about - when I clip a screamer on a piece it's because I consider the piece marginalized in some fashion. And I don't use screamers for comfort either, if I don't think they'll make a difference I won't bother with a truly marginal placement at all. But your point should be well-taken - don't count on a screamer to turn utter shite into a good piece. If you don't know what you're looking at to begin with they aren't going to substantially improve your odds or track record.

I've blown a couple of dozen screamers in falls over the years without any of those pieces blowing so I'm somewhat forced to believe the screamers played a contributing role to that outcome given all of those placements were small and / or marginalized in some way or another. All the screamers blew either partially or for their full length - typically blowing about half their length over all and we reused the partially blown ones after sport taping them back together, so a bunch of those screamers saw multiple falls until they were fully deployed. Lots over those falls were on micronuts, crack 'n ups, and 2-3# loweballs. And I've taken an equal or greater number of falls on similar placements without screamers; some held, some blew so I over time I've developed a reasonable feel for what's likely and unlikely to hold in the way of small / marginal pro. I typically only carry the screamers on occasion, usually on FAs where I suspect the rock quality and / or placements are likely to be somewhat marginal in some way or another.

Well, I suppose there are people out there who are capable of thinking about this sort of thing while placing pro, but I've never met one, and can't imagine it myself. In the end I guess I couldn't really care less what the numbers are and in any case I wouldn't be capable of looking at a placement and somehow relating it to relatively abstract numbers in that way. But I do place and climb over a lot of small / marginal gear, however, and to my mind it's way more about taking the time to get intimately familiar with the capabilities of your gear, the characteristics of the rock, and about developing a more intuitive sense and feel of what any hypothetical or actual placement can bear. Once you have that, then the numbers are basically irrelevant (for me anyway) as placements naturally just boil down to 'yes' / 'maybe' / 'possibly-if-everything-is-and-remains-just-so' / 'no' / 'hell no'! ('possibly' typically gets a screamer). But it does takes time, yardage and, in the end, falls to develop an solid intuitive feel for it all and I can't think of any useful shortcuts to shorten the learning curve besides climbing with better leaders and getting in even more yardage.

Pretty much the only caveat with kids is that their strength/weight ratio changes radically over the course of puberty dumping said children out the other side with an adult version of that ratio which is much less than in children. I've seen some phenomenal kid climbers just walk away for a year or two and some push through it. It can be a rough transition either way and whether they push through it or come back to climbing with an adult body it's a big adjustment. Some are still superstars afterwords, some become merely human depending on the changes. Should be interesting to see how your boy rides it out - clearly has the goods.

I don't believe there is any confusion at all from what I've read.

Pile of gear - id and it's yours.

They had their time and still do in some pocketed rock and crags with lots of horizontals like the Gunks. Permanently parked mine in the basement once climbing primarily on basalt.

True, being from snow country, the last thing I want is a weak algorithm managing any skids I happen to get into. So yeah, I similarly don't delegate belaying to a device either and don't think belaying off anchors is a particularly good idea. But it does play into doing other things than belaying when belaying if one is already so inclined. Modern ABS is pretty refined, in fact I'm pretty certain you couldn't outbrake it on a majority of slippery surfaces with manual brakes, especially on turns. I know exactly how modern abs units work, half of what I do of late is write sensor-related apps. The problem is they don't help at all in the Gorge when I want it most, are worse when dealing with snow skids, and only excel during emergency stops on dry/somewhat wet pavement. Not enough benefit for the intrusion from my perspective. Basically the two things I for sure don't want a computer doing is braking an automobile and talking (ever). Exactly. "Easier" is certainly one word for it I suppose. But it's tough enough as is these days to get people to simply STFUAB without introducing a habit which encourages even more slovenly habits. Belaying a second on a big wall aid line? Sure, but that's pretty much it. As for the other, I don't like climbing in threesomes, don't ever want two followers climbing at the same time, and don't really like seeing someone taking pictures, eating or picking their nose when some else is climbing.

True, being from snow country, the last thing I want is a weak algorithm managing any skids I happen to get into. So yeah, I similarly don't delegate belaying to a device either and don't think belaying off anchors is a particularly good idea. But it does play into doing other things than belaying when belaying if one is already so inclined. Weak algorithm? You obviously don't know anything about antilock brakes produced after 1990. Is the advice your doling out regarding climbing as up to date as your opinions towards automotive technology? I know they make zero, zip difference when you are hydro-planing on a sheet of water or flying over black ice in the Gorge and I can manage a skid on snow way better than they can. Oh, and I'm a software engineer with aviation and automotive experience and do actually know about abs performance which, like autoblocks, is why I don't use them.

True, being from snow country, the last thing I want is a weak algorithm managing any skids I happen to get into. So yeah, I similarly don't delegate belaying to a device either and don't think belaying off anchors is a particularly good idea. But it does play into doing other things than belaying when belaying if one is already so inclined.

Never use autoblock devices or belay off anchors, ever, so it's not an issue.

Have never carried a cordalette or other dedicated anchor gear.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/wicked-lasers-shark/

Christ, still working the Chinooks hard forty years later I see. They were the workhorse in Vietnam and I logged quite a few hours in them at the time and they felt creaky as hell then. Well, at least we're getting our money's worth out of them. Hopefully the army pilots try to do less batshit crazy aerial tricks with them than the marine pilots bitd. Somewhere I have a sequence of shots out the open back ramp as one nutjob tried to see if he could barrel roll one - not fun as an occasional rider. Definitely go for those Blackhawks if possible...

How many 2000 foot unclimbed cliffs did Kukuczka or Steck stand at the base of, then just climb sans rope for a free-solo first ascent of the highest grade done with a rope at the time? And Kukuczka used oxygen for Everest which pretty much blew his o2less streak. Hard to imagine anyone calling or holding an opinion of Messner as 'overhyped' - it's like calling John Bachar overhyped. Kukuczka and Messner were / are monsters.

I don't know, I guess I don't really consider getting to your first piece a [technical] 'ground fall' situation per se, or if it is, then I go back to it likely being an error in judgment even getting on the route. What I do consider a real groundfall situation is finding yourself any distance above the first piece with that potential - i.e. once you're officially established on the route proper. But just getting established on the route? I'd say that's kind of stretching the traditional use of the term. Getting established on a route is more a matter of bouldering with the accompanying proviso of picking your poison wisely (in that 'don't leave the ground if you aren't prepared to deal' sort of way).

I have to agree by and large in that to me a runout is a calculated risk; staring at a groundfall is almost always either a mistake, an error in judgment, or both.

R U runned out when ur free soloin'...?

It isn't about what's in the article, it's about what's being practiced on a daily basis by the executive. Nothing I've said is based off of the article, but rather the realities of Whitehouse policy implementation across two presidencies.

Irrelevant. One man's willy, is another man's life and when nilly is sitting at a predator console there isn't much exaggerating going on - just a lot of convenient apologetics.

This is quite an exaggeration. That's not really how the NYT phrased it. That is no exaggeration of any kind regardless of how the NYT worded it. It's a direct consequence of the Bush administration's steady push for an increase in executive powers - suspension of Habeas Corpus, designation as enemy combatants, targeted assassinations of U.S. citizens, and a low bar for 'state secrets' prominent among them. Obama / Holder have held fast to those enhancements to executive power and that's the risk of such enhancements by either party - once presumed or granted, they are very difficult to restrain or revoke. Aside from the ever abysmal Roberts and Alito, the enhancement of executive power - almost ruling by fiat - is the worst of W's and the neocons' legacy. Bottom line is if executive decides they don't like you, they can designate you an enemy combatant and detain you indefinitely or assassinate you. Fighting it in court is similarly next to impossible while the executive can shield all pertinent evidence behind a judicial shield of 'state secrets' which prevents such cases from coming to trail. And that's what makes Roberts and Alito ever abysmal - their ardent support for expanded executive power due to their experiences in the Reagan administration.

I've met folks who've had the opposite experience and are bolder later in life than when they were younger. I've been pretty consistent over time and, under the right circumstances, still more or less willing to whip my age for another year or two.

What is 'runout' to me is highly dependent on my physical and emotional shape at the time of the climb. It's also highly dependent on the characteristics of the route - availability and quality of the placements, quality of the rock, type of climbing, and who my partner / belayer is. Sometimes 10 feet seems runout and other times, like Bill illustrates above, you can go and go (even when it may or may not be a good idea). Somedays I feel great and can't be bothered with too many placements, other days I sew it up any sections that make me nervous. And sometimes you really have to do a balancing act between hanging out dicking around with so-so placements and just climbing on to a better stance / placement even if you don't necessarily feel like it. But overall, set distance rules around placements seems counterproductive to learning to respond to what you find when you get on an unfamiliar line.