JosephH

Lance - Finding a new monkey, in a forest of monkeys, while news is not that big a deal. Finding a new hominid where none exist is another deal altogether. Again, the deal with QPE/S is actually pretty simple - creatures don't come or exist down through time in ones and twos - they need minimally sustaining populations and a habitat capable of supporting them. The idea that there are such populations of Hominidae roaming about without any substantive interactions with humans is beyond a stretch. It's up there with how a population of Nessies could survive in a relatively sterile lake (from a protein perspective) or how UFO's would manage the [time] travel required to come here...

Those who know...know quantitative population ecology and statistics. They also know that the very idea of a sustaining population of any such creatures (particularly without Blockbuster cards) is a pretty surreal...

Yep, nothing worse than a novice with sharp nails cluelessly mucking about...

Safe with the proviso that at least two have exploded, though I believe that was hauling and leading, not TR.

Well, he isn't going to climbing through my crotch with sharp tools until he gets a lot more yardage under his belt...

Yep, I talked with Simon earlier in the fall and they'll be tooling up for them - maybe going anodized w/o the tubing as is all the rage these days (for the aluminum ones). He said they don't plan on changing the geometry at all...

Snoboy - it definitely shows it in the docs. But that doesn't mean they also don't explode under some circumstances or that the pro-traxion doesn't warp and fail to lock under some [deflecting] hauling loads. I own both and they are great. Just be aware gear has [design] limitations and both of these particular units don't care much for out-of-plane loads compared to a grigri or shunt...

Probably fine, and runs smoother than a shunt or grigri, but I have heard from a very reliable source that several have "exploded" under loads - though not from falls per se...

Yeah, I've seen those "Chamonix Simond" ones before along with the various Bonatti's, but I never cared for the early euro stuff myself, always used Chouinards,they were heavy by comparison; but then I didn't do alpine which everyone liked them for. Found this one the other day when I was out getting the haul line down for the season. Strange, though, it was just sitting there on the first bolt on Young Warriors. I just hopped up in my tennies and grabbed it. Odd spot to leave one...

Must be another old-timer...

Sorry, RuMR missed your reply... Can't recall at this point but it seems to me I ended up with a wire gate from out there somewhere...

Well, my earlier years of climbing in the '70s were all about very strenuous overhangs and flat roofs. We had rests/hangs from every conceivable body part down to a science - particularly no hands and straight arm hangs. Here's a shot of one of them I put up in '75: http://rockclimbing.com/photo/photo_show.php?id=46917 (w/ text) http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/6299Fiddler800.JPG (larger w/o text) Most of these roofs have no hands or no feet hangs for major rests and minor rests on straight arms with various heel/toe hooks. That, in combination with some very specific lunges pretty much did my shoulders in. I have generally suspected that on vertical terrain, which our hollows didn't have the toll would be much less - roofs are pretty dependent on shoulders. I have since been reputably assured that relentlessly hanging on your joints is a bad idea, period. So that adds to the balancing act: don't rest on muscles for short-term gain and long-term loss OR rest on muscles for short-term loss and long-term gain. This is obviously another case of either there is no god or she's really f#cking with you. Me, there isn't a roof FA I'd trade to have my shoulder back, had we known, however, I would have tried to climb differently. As a sidebar, my main partner from those days also did rings in college before climbing and he has pretty much the same issues, but throw in neck and elbow problems as well (he still climbs .13a fairly casually)...

MtnHigh, That was my haul line on "Flying Dutchman" for the anchor replacement project and I just took it down yesterday as it was getting pretty beat up in the wind and we're not going to be doing a whole lot more this year the way the weather is shaping up. It was pretty burly out there yesterday with some of the strongest winds I've experienced out there, but still a surprising number of folks were out with parties on "Blownout", "SE Corner", "Psychic Wound", and "Young Warriors". I had to do the "Flying Dutchman" raps with the rope stacked on my right arm feeding it as I went or it would just blown horizontal and whip around otherwise. Bummer I didn't have a camera with me as I came down on the folks on "Psychic Wound". Also, I had a Petzl Spirit biner and a 24" dynemma sling literally "blow" off an open gate while I was cleaning the SE Corner slab pitch. Forgot to look for it on the way out, so give a shout if you happen to run across them, thanks. Also, in the near term (not sure when I'll get time exactly) I'll be putting up info relative to BRCA/BRSP and the status of various efforts and plans we're jointly working on that includes new route protocol on the NW face. Joseph

I'm 53 and the only real limitation as you age is damaged joints and tendons; treat those nicely and you can climb and climb hard pretty much forever. My left shoulder has been declared defunct and it limits me to sub-.12 when I'm in shape. Though it also depends on the type of rock/route. Got up an .11d a couple of weeks ago in Southern Illinois, but it was back in my "homeland" on rock I grew up on, and couldn't likely run out to Smith and pull down .11d tomorrow. "Retired" here on this forum is in his 50's and still pulling down pretty monsterously doing Freeblast in under 5 hours and WFLT in under 9 hours a few weeks back. So don't abuse those joints too badly now, stay off straight arms as much as possible, and don't use it all up too soon.

I was out there yesterday - blowing, but completely dry because of it and great. I'll be going out Sunday.

I'm totally jealous - fabulous surfing and windsurfing there too...

Who runs the parkour meetings in PDX and how can I get a in touch with them...?

Learning more about Beacon this year than I had in all the previous eighteen.

Bill, I think there is ample precedent for bolting at Rocky Butte and Broughton's both. I do agree if you are going to do a cleaning job at a place like RB then by all means do it right. Do we carry responsibility if someone dies run out on Snake Dike - I don't think so. And 'lazyness', hmmm - as in I didn't go out and proactively or preventively make some aspect of a crag safe when otherwise I wouldn't be out there at all? If that's what you mean, then no, I don't believe that either. I've done lots of run out stuff over the years, though probably not as much as Jim; it's not a matter of curing me, it's a matter of my and anyone else's choice to make or not. And I've lost two friends to climbing accidents so I do understand the consequences and the context when I talk about these issues. The bottom line as I've said elsewhere several times is that if bolts disappeared tomorrow you'd see climbing as an industry collapse overnight losing I suspect about 70% or the folks who today identify themselves as "climbers". Again, I'm pragmatic, I understand it isn't going to stop. But as far as I'm concerned any suggestion that wholly bolted routes aren't the #1 reason and only reason people are climbing in the numbers they are today is utter nonsense. Pretty much every problem we face today is related to that drill-driven proliferation. Every time you put in a protection bolt you can be sure you're directly contributing to it. As far as Stein's Pillar is concerned, my understanding was that it wasn't traditionally bolted, if that's wrong so be it, if it's suddenly being rap/grid-bolted as a new sport destination then I'd question the necessity and motive. Likely the reason would be to escape the crowds bolted lines attracted somewhere else would be my guess.

Congrats to markd on his photo at RC.com: Smith photo

Now that is a classic line of Dingus', but I just don't buy the line at all - by that reasoning we sh/wouldn't be climbing at all. And to be honest I typically see that line employed to justify an "anything goes" and an "I'm getting mine" approach by folks that have gone over as you said, to the "dark side". Again, nothing but respect for your history, climbing, your choices, and even the way you've set up your life, but this is something we'll have to disagree on. There will always be issues and problems outside of climbing - that doesn't negate the seriousness of the issues within the context of it once we decide that's where our time and energies are going versus somewhere else. I'd also be curious to know if coming off the career you have of many life and death stories and experiences set the stage for a different perspective and a desire to just enjoy your retirement without too many concern for the 'details'? That's completely legit in my eyes too, not that you need my ok or approval for anything in or out of climbing...

Jim, I sure wish it were that simple. But access issues, degradation of rock, trails, trees, etc. are all a result of crowding and providing "safe climbing" resources to a growing population of climbers unprepared and uninterested in dealing with anything else. That in turn attracts more of the same in a spiral that is not without consequences. Maybe it's the different areas we both started climbing in. In Southern Illinois the pristine hollows are stunning and the impact of chalk, bolts, draws, and crowds are significant and immediate; in Southern Oregon that probably isn't quite as much the case (and from what I saw at Jurrasic 50 gallon drums of epoxy and several napalm strikes to clean up the oak would be more in order). But I grew up with a LNT sensibility that I've never strayed far from, I suspect you didn't. But to simply say "it's all just fun" is fine if you ignore the consequences or don't consider them an issue - I can't. I have enormous respect for your climbing, and enjoyed meeting you, but we obviously disagree on this particular front. I've never placed a protection bolt and don't care for seeing every unprotected rock in the US bolted for the sake of "fun". That said, I hope we can hook up out at Beacon when I get back in town...

Just like to know who's in these conversations. There's a guy down your way named Vern and I thought you might be him...

Cobra and Corvallis, who are you guys? I don't know everyone's handle here...

"I would say to each their own." The problem is some folks don't want to see bolted lines in a setting like that and that constitutes a valid "their own" as the person putting them in. I'm not a local over there, but if I was camo'ing wouldn't be my solution of choice. The perspective that anything and everything can and should be bolted is somehow ok, legitimate, or some sort of laissez faire or cute anarchist stance blows, a fascist one is more like it.