JosephH

Is there a problem? I was not aware of a problem. Only if you are one of the folks who have a problem with the mid-ffs anchor... One of each. P.S. Gone til this evening...

Mark, people don't rap to the tree or the perch - they bail at those spots. Not everyone is prepared to deal with the off-width/stem section or the Dodd's crux; many, many people bail at both those points or they simply can't get up those stretches of rock and retreat. I'm not sure we want have anchors everywhere folks bail - but on the otherhand I don't think we can assume everyone gets up everything. It's a bit of a dilemma in that regard.

It's behind the tree, with about 3 inches of webbing and rings sneaking out between a tiny slot between the tree and the wall. I think the perch/mid-ffs pair are the problem, rather than just the mid-ffs anchor alone. It's the perch anchor that sets the stage for rapping to the mid-ffs anchor. If you really wanted to solve the problem then I think you'd want to pull the pair of them.

One of the recent climbing or R&I issues had a big elbow write up. Whatever it is isn't normal; you probably need to ease up a bit and sort it out. PM Layton or maybe he'll wade in here...

Henry Barber complained about this anchor long ago when he visited, so folks aren't alone in not liking it. The [only] problem with pulling it from my perspective is folks have long used it for rappelling and still do. Lots of folks change their mind about going up to the Dodd's tree and rap off the little perch and end up at the FFS anchor to complete their rap. Some folks just like going up to the little perch and doing those two raps. It would be a big change for a lot of folks and some would be unpleasantly surprised by such a change if they haven't been for awhile or don't read this forum. I'm pretty neutral on this anchor, but a lot of foks do rap through it.

When standing at the base I tend to think of a big wall as more or less going up from that point as opposed to out and away from me. I also can tell by how warm and wet my left leg gets when contemplating the whole idea of it. Elevating IB to a 'classic' seems a stretch; elevating it to a 'big wall' is probably a bit more reaching than you did on the route - 'wall' being the operative noun in this case. No doubt about it, you did a sh#tload of climbing, but I don't think you're going to find much consensus for such a designation.

So, if I hear you right, this 'classic' is basically a choss walkup with one or two acceptably decent pitches on it, is a loose rock chute, and the descent sucks. Kudos for you and Ben for going up and doing it, but unless I'm missing something I've yet to hear (in this or any IB TR) anything that sounds particularly classic about it...

Actually, four big blocks are missing from where you used to step around from one anchor to the other (two on that level, one above, and a really big one below). Personally I find p2 a much, much cleaner and interesting line in its current form than it ever was previously. It makes it far nicer to run p1 and p2 into a single pitch, the new dihedral is more interesting, and the mantle is now more pure. To each his own I guess.

That's your IB TR?

It would be a grey area at Liberty Bell, at Beacon it's all black and white - no routes are altered in the process unless nature alters them first. The railroad has all the power out there, no loose rock is worth the risk of an accident involving a train if it can be prevented. It's only as grey as you make it and it sounds as though you don't climb anywhere where such constraints or considerations matter.

It's actually more of an access issue at Beacon and there are some fairly unique circumstances at this crag. Primary among them is one of the busiest stretches of railroad tracks in the nation goes by about forty feet from the base at its closest point. The rail traffic significantly vibrates Beacon 24x7x365 and thereby is constantly [and unnaturally] contributing to the significant loose rock load there - particularly after winters with heavy ice loads. Our arrangement with the BRSP is that we will annually, and in emergencies, notify them of any rockfall hazards. Any rockfall hazards that threaten the railroad in particular need immediate attention and are addressed in coordination with railroad personnel. If someone gets killed, or track or a train are damaged, by an [identified] rockfall hazard there would be immediate and serious threats to access. Monitoring rockfall hazards and doing controlled drops in cooperation with the BRSP and railroad is very much a smart, pre-emptive approach to dealing with a particular class of potential access threats at Beacon. Your attempts to play games in a contrast to climbing-related bolting are a stretch too far under the best of circumstances, but in the complex regulatory situation out at Beacon it doesn't hold water at all.

Definitely no bolt is required there - there is a bolt below and a perfect cam in the slot above, no need for anything inbetween. If anything, when is Jim going to authorize the removal of half the bolts on p1?

Yeah, it's definitely spicier and I now undercling a flake to complete the mantle and I suspect it will have a half-life of about a month unless folks are real careful with it...

Can't do it, would never had even thought of it in such a way except hearing it from you guys and I still don't really get how such a great feature and pitch could end up with such a moniker. Probably plays no small part in the reason I don't jam it like all you guys...

======== Safety Note ======== [i[Young Warriors p2[/i] - a significant flake was loosened yesterday and was reported to Jim Opdycke as "about to come off". The top of this flake formed the righthand side of where you stand when you first arrive at the small ledge below the main A-frame feature (also colloquially called the 'butthole' by some, but I can't quite bring myself to that moniker for such a lovely sequence). This flake also acted as the right side of a double mantle for many folks coming up through the first of the two mini-cruxs on p2. Bottom line now that it has been removed - p2 is now a tad bit spicier than it was. [ Note: Many routes at Beacon occasionally use flakes, both big and small, for holds; please do not pull outward on any such flake - pull only in-plane with the flake (parallel to the wall), as many are fragile - this remains especially true for much of Young Warriors p2. In general, always moving as lightly as possible over the stone is a good idea out there... ] SE Corner Route Anchors and Raps - Please do not add slings and rings to any anchor or tree out at Beacon - especially the SE Corner p2 anchor or the SE Corner tree. In fact, please DO NOT RAP FROM THE SE CORNER TREE at all - either don't go up to the tree and at the top of the slab instead go straight ahead to the Young Warriors p2 anchor. That or continue up the route to the standard descent raps from the Grassy Ledges. Also, the anchor hangers in use at Beacon are "Rap" hangers and do not need slings or rings in the locations without them; you can safely rap directly off the hangers. Hangers with slings and rings have them to provide directional options and/or optimally extend the rope for an easier pull in situations where friction can be an issue. Loose Rock - Loose rock is constant condition at Beacon. And though an effort to deal with the worst and biggest of it is now made before each year's opening, there is simply no way to eliminate this natural condition. From the time you leave the ground until you return to it please tread lightly and be aware of every foot fall and where your rope is running to avoid knocking rocks off. Tricks such as draping your rope in bushes or clipping the branch of a tree to keep the rope off the ground when traversing ledge paths can make a real difference in this regard. If you do come across loose rock - please do not throw it - stack it off to the side somewhere and it will get cleaned at the earliest opportunity or in next seasons pre-opening work session which will be sweeping the ledges looking for such caches again. If you discover something of any size that concerns you or anything that appears newly loose or dangerous please pm 'billcoe' and myself here on cc.com, email Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com, and / or tell Jim Opdycke if you see him out there. Failing those contacts, or if the situation is an emergency, please contact the BRSP staff at the Rangers' office or leave a note / voicemail for them if it is closed.

No problem Jon. We just think completely differently about that pitch - everything is as solid as it needs to be and the moves are lovely. That stuff might come off is more about a climber's ability to move lightly than about the rock itself. If you're yarding up through stuff like that it will repay you in kind. Still haven't seen the jacket, but would be nice to have it for fall.

Moved to head of the queue...

However tall the Bastille Crack in Eldo is than that's one of many perfect lengths for a route.

On a purely technical basis pins and bolts are both fixed pro, both require maintenance. Beyond that it's a matter of working with the rock from my perspective. If a spot needs fixed pro and the rock is amenable to pins and will take a medium or long pin (Bugaboo, Lost Arrow, or Soft Spade) then I will fix a pin. If the rock is not amenable or it will not take a medium or long pin then I'd go with a bolt. Those are my ethics relative to working with the rock. Gear > fixed pins > bolts as an absolute last resort - but it's very rock-specific. Outside of an alpine setting, pins should be fixed and not removed except possibly to be reset as a part of being maintained every 8-10 years or so. And I personally don't feel angles or short pins of any variety are appropriate for fixed pro and would say use pro in lieu of an angle and a bolt in lieu of a short pin.

In that second from the bottom shot of your series you can see both of the big halves relatively intact just after the righthand one has hit and fragged, but just before the lefthand one does the same. Would be interesting to know which one blasted the crater.

Hopefully he didn't have to cut off his leg to get home.

Way better than climbing - and not technology or sex related - Jesus, I'm complete loser under those constraints.

It's nice to have the drop on one instead of them always having the drop on you. The rock in the photo is the smaller upper half of about a 6'x3'x2' triangular bullet sitting on a 45 degree angled ledge. The lower end of it was the only handhold at the start of an overhanging section on the last pitch and was incredibly tempting to use. On the FA Bill recognized it was a problem and everyone has been warned since on the few subsequent ascents it's seen. It came off with just thumb pressure on the wall when grabbed as that oh-so-tempting handhold. Glad to see it gone. Here is a pic of the frag pattern as it flies by LW p3: And one of Bill and Ivan working the Jill's block:

Give a shout and describe...

If you mean the one above the p1 anchor, then yes, Bill and Ivan did that one and it surprisingly went down about 15 feet east of the snag tree and gap in the rock you squeeze through to head over to the p2 anchor. It made a hell of a ruckus as well from what I could hear up on Lost Warriors.