thrutch

Now this statement is sooo true from the first word to the last period.

Distel, You are incorrect for several reasons, one is that both problems Szyjakowski listed as having flakes borken are not overhanging only slightly more or less then vertical so you can still pull down and not out. Secondly if you read Sherman's book only bouldering you will see at one point on overhanging rouyes you will need to transfer your power from pulling to pushing and thus applying downward force on the flake. The people who state that rocks fall aprat are true, but it tends to be climbers with poor technique whom acclerate the process. Try being less offended and take the advice as a possible way to improve the situation for all.

Not to start a debate but I personally do not think that LCC is better then the City of Rocks. Plus when climbing in LCC you have to be around a whole host of religous zealots which taints the flavor.

If you are looking into a light weight tent, I say go with some parachute cord and a hardware store tarp. Much more cost effective, lighter and versatile. I save the tent for when there is real weather for a longer durations of time. If money is an issue then I say buy what you can at a deal as equipment should not be an excuse for an adventure.

Climbing is dangerous so each person must accept and mitigate the hazards in the way they see fit. Simul climbing is no more dangerous if done properly but two or three competent people then leading climbing done by the same people.

Mr Klenke, I don't think I have ever signed a summit register before, I see little importance in it personally. But whatever floats your boat.

City is only 3 easy hours from SLC and Boulder is what 7 hours from SLC so you are still looking at 10 hours of driving. I would think that Veudvoo would be a better use of your time, unless of course you have already been there. It was also snow free as of 2 weeks ago, except for small patches of snow.

Someone here must be a guide?

I would compare them to some piece of junk that you never want to use and hate yourself for even purchasing. They do have their place somewhere in the climbing world but to effort to find that place is a waste of time.

I belive Black Diamond/ Chris Harmston did some testing in relation to biners that were scooped from the base of El Cap and if my fading memory serves me right something like 99% of them passed all tests that new biners are subjected to. Lawgoddess, aid climbing has taught me to place protection better in general, I personally do not think that I would subject myself or my partner to a placement that I hold no confidence in.

If that is the case then you need to pull down and not out. Any seasoned climber could figure that out, pulling out creates leverage against the flake and thus altering the route.

Here is an excerpt I read a few days ago, I think it disproves GregW's theory and re-enforces the secretive nature of the Bush government. A quick google search can bring to light many other items related to all this. Granted you can search and find a similar amount of counter-information if you want, so choose which side you want and enjoy the ride. Ashcroft Is Unprintable, and Glad of It By Todd Gitlin and Jay Rosen The Los Angeles Times Thursday 25 September 2003 On tour, he bars the press and cozies up to local TV reporters. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft, who is continuing his tour of the country to promote the Patriot Act, has at several stops, including Buffalo and Philadelphia, refused to speak to print reporters. While television correspondents can often breeze right in, their newspaper colleagues are kept at bay by Secret Service agents doing the bidding of the nation's chief law enforcement official, who prefers audiences of handpicked enthusiasts and interviews with local television reporters.

Just like skiing in Utah and Colorado people rarely tend to venture beyond the established tracks! I guess that is good for the hearty soul! Looks like a nice day out in the mountains!

I think without a topo getting sucked further up the chimmeny is more promenient then most climbers like to admit as the traverse looks slightly improbable. It sounds like you had a great weekend and no matter what that is what counts the most!

A prime example of "known" risk aidding in a fatality was that of Walt Shipley, who died on a river(Cherry creek) he had boated a hundred times or more. Whereas he had/has set some of the standard for bold routes on less then perfect rock/protection. "Live life the way you like it and call it good", That is my mantra. Tho the wife prefers a few more calculated risks in her assesment.

Hmmm... I have not really messed with the wire length too much, as I have just started to dip them and found the results so far promising. I am sure you know how it is sitting around drinking with friends "brain" storming on neat little ideas.

I have climbed out at Swauk once about 5 or 6 years ago and while the rock is not the best, the area does offer some beauty and solitude with some adventuresome sport cragging. I would say check it out and enjoy!

Now this is very cool for you people to do! Kudos to you all and when I get back into Oregon there is a bottle of scotch for you all to enjoy.

Not totally true, look at both the WC and Metolious cams and they both have shorter stiff wires then the BD. In 10+ years of service I have only had one tcu wire break and it was more from a faulty swedge then cable faliure and one friend trigger wire break. Whereas I am nearing the point of purchasing a hand swedger just to fix BD trigger wires. Though I have purchased some tool dip like matrial and have started to coat the trigger wires to prevent some fraying.

Actually tool dip is a good thing to coat the Black Diamond trigger wires with. Not alot is needed just a small amount where the swage takes places. I only say B.D. as I have found their trigger wires to be class-A certified junk. A couple ides to why they break. One is that the swaged cable is too short and the metal piece too long, it does't allow for enough play. The other I place on myself and think that I need to be a bit more firendly to them when I pack them. Either way tool dip adds a small bit of longgevity.

The love flows freely

Doug, I oppose fees for public lands, but please make sure you present your material with the truth. All items listed above are correct in the assessment of the fee, but 3 of them are required for a fee to be charged. The one point I dislike the most is that they think it is less convenient for the user to buy the pass at the actual facility, they would rather involve a 3rd party to increase the fee. I do not know how they figure this as one stop shopping is always easier. Then again they are tool and they are whores to commercialism just like the majority of America.

Well I dunno how "self-made" Kerry is, marrying the heiress of the Heinz fortune doesn't leave alot of making to be had.

Cracked, The reason being is that the recreational vehicle lobby is much more powerful then anything a climbing lobby could muster. It all comes down to money and the way the U.S. government sees fit to enforce their "ideal" theory. From a vehicle one does not really have to interact with natire to experience it, it is a visual enjoyment. The Dept. of Agriculture has a warped sense of reality, driven soley on the dollar.

Klenke, I am unfamiliar with your exact tent, but if you do not recover it I might be interested in your tent poles. My poles found a similar fate, though in the Palisades of the Sierra.