Bogen

Estimates say 90% of muslims in the middle east are Sunni. This won't go away easily.

I don't know any of these people. It was a good post, any one bitchin about it has a separate axe to grind.

Does that mean neither? Sorry, makes a difference to me about projector shipping.

Soo.. if there is no ice (touch wood) will we change the date or the location?

Well, I had discounted that essayist on spelling and grammar alone, but the deep economics were out of my league and left me wondering.

Yeah, and just cuz he SAYS so doesn't mean shit. If he has a case, the lawyers will call you. We'll pass the hat and collect that $5.01 to help you out.

For a really nice alternative POV (alternative to my rant, that is) I found this essay on the economic reasons behind the American invasion of Iraq. Summary

And does it occur to anyone that maybe those folks in charge got into position to take advantage of Persian Gulf oil to defray the costs of an imminent war?

that's what I said Exactly.

Iraq under Saddam was one of the few arabic countries that enjoyed freedom of religion, with even christians practicing openly. I was sure, the day they captured Saddam, that I saw a portrait of the Virgin Mary on the wall in his room, but in watching subsequent video clips of his capture that particular segment was never shown again. Probably just my imagination. Even now, I think we begin to see that the only way to keep the fundamentalist muslim sects from killing the civilized members of your society is to torture some or throw a few hundred in a pit every once in a while, a la Saddam. One of my favorite clips after the invasion was of a little girl asking her grandpa what was the difference between sunni and shi'i muslim , a distinction illegal to speak of under Saddam. The old man just hung his head and cried. The rest of the Arab world hated him because he wouldn't even tolerate the sunni bullshit. I don't think he was ever a threat to the west, and I don't think the people behind the invasion ever really thought so. Iraq was simply a country that no-one would trouble about if it were invaded. It was just a convenient step, a relatively easy piece of the geographical puzzle, an opening move in the much longer and larger war to come.

Dude, you don't even know who you are really fighting or why. Not that anyone is coming right out and telling you, I admit all the lies and deceit are ridiculous. But how else are they going to push it forward in this sensitive new age? You seem to assume that there are evil, or greedy conspiracies at work behind these invasions, but it seems to me there are more sensible, simpler explanations.

No one intelligent really thinks that Iraq was behind the attack on America. But Iraq is a conveniently attainable foothold in taking the attack back to Al Queda. War has been declared, and you should be grateful to have it off your homeland.

Different herd, but you're still a fucking sheep. Do you really think the world would be a better place if we were all passive, anti-war peaceniks? You enjoy the luxury of being able to believe in "freedom" because someone was aggressive enough to create it for you through violent means. Without those same violently aggressive people, other violent aggressive people will eventually take away your right and even ability to live and believe as you do now. I'm glad you enjoy that luxury, but I'm little appalled that so many people bitch about it so much.

Iraq is obviously a stepping stone, a way to further establish more troops in the middle east without uniting the muslims. Since Syria, Iran etc hated Saddam, Iraq was an obvious step after Afghanistan. Iran will be next, THEN you'll see war!!

Good one, point taken!

That was my question, anyway. I suspect that deep down, a great many Americans are all for invading the middle east, whether for good reasons or not. I just wonder about the "values" that seem to be associated with it. Perhaps it is not a given, ie that pro-war equals anti-gay, but rather a political tactic by the anti-war people to paint the pro-war people with a broad brush.

Excellent diatribe, I agree wholeheartedly. I would add that calling people idiots may not be the best way to try to bring them around to another way of thinking. History of Science, eh? Did you happen to read the article in the recent "skeptical enquirer" about science and ignorance? I didn't get all the way through, it was a bit pedantic, but an interesting notion nonetheless.

I do agree that the lies and scare tactics were used, and that the results of the war are not what was promised. I just wonder if, despite the lies, Bush supporters aren't dumb, just pro-invasion, and that the anti-tolerance values weren't piggybacked along with that sentiment. There must be stats available for anti-gay vs anti-abortion vs pro-war Bush supporters.

Are the homophobes and right-to-life crowd the same people that are pro-invasion? I myself can see some logic in taking the war to the mid-east, but am confounded by the bigotry that seems to be tacked on to these policies.

I use mozilla and don't have any problem.

um, yeah, that would be awfully hard to do with the adjustables. Maybe use the adjustables and carry a ladder for the odd overhang?? Once the hand motion accompanying loosening and tightening the adjustable is second nature, moving up or down is way simple, and you never have to look at your feet.

So... the assumption seems to be: the only reason the current regime exists is that slightly more than half of your countrymen are dumber than dirt. Could there be another explanation?

I am not a serious aid climber, but the little I have done is mostly in the adjustable aiders. I love them! Waaay faster than the other clusterfuck when you get used to them. The only problem I have is that the buckles get underfoot when stepping up to a ledge - very treacherous! Because it is attached to your foot, you can't just step out, and the metal buckle dangles just under your foot. I can see how someone with a lot of experience with the step type aiders would have trouble "adjusting," but if you are just starting, I suggest you give them a try.

I can bring in a projector from calgary. Anyone travelling that way prior to the weekend, you could save me the shipping cost?

High carb, low fat and exercise