Blake

Thanks all. Here's the part I was wondering about http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/showphoto.php?photo=3841 I guess it's anywhere from MCash's 5.8 to Alpinfox's .10b

After the second pitch of GM (with the cruxy undercling and awesome knobs), what is the rating if you go right on Heart of the Country? Also, how is that 3rd pitch of GM if you stay left? It began as a squeeze chimney for some super-skinny climber, or else a tough wide lieback that you'd need a #6 camalot to prevent decking. Maybe I was missing something there... or maybe that funkyness is why people always go right up HOC.

think left, and don't miss the bolt...

What's the preferred handbag for the cascades? Does Gucci make that one in Gore-tex?

Can anyone suggest a good shoe for alpine trips in the cascades? Ideally it can do all of the following fairly well: Long hikes on trail Scrambling/sliding/edging/sidehilling on loose uneven ground Fairly stiff for kicking steps in snow Moderatey resistant to get soaked on snow/glaciers Some Sticky-ish rubber for easy rock climbing is a plus It doesn't need specific crampon welts. The lighter the better, for stashing in the pack while using rock shoes. I suppose I am imagining a trail-runner/hiking boot/approach shoe combo. Thanks a ton.

Chris Greyell put them up. I think that Roan Wall pitches go something like this .8/.4/.10b/.10a/.8/.9/.10+/.10-/.9/.10- It's more face climbing on edges and patina than "slab" climbing. You can access Salish without climbing the Roan Wall by following a 3rd class mountain goat scramble to the left of the wall. If you find clumps of fur, you are on the right track.

Is the midpoint anchor on Rogers Corner there so you can rap off with a 50m? I don't think anyone ever just climbs the 5.8 part and descends. It'd take a chain saw to remove the "anchor" at the top of Rogers Corner though, not a crowbar. I hope you are right about not showing up and finding more anchors gone. However, with both the JG and Sag anchors, you can see them (or notice them gone) from the ground. If something like Thin Fingers anchors were gone, you wouldn't know it until you had reached the ledge and were in for some trouble.

Trip: Salish Peak & Roan Wall linkup - 17 pitches 5.10+ - Date: 6/20/2007 Trip Report: Yesterday Darin Berdinka and I climbed two new grade III routes near Darrington. The are both recently completed and feature flawless granite in a beautiful spot. We did them in a day 16 hours round trip. Approach using the Squire Creek Trail towards Three Fingers, and the Roan Wall is on your right, easily noticeable from the head of the valley. Ours was probably the 4th ascent of both of the routes, but they deserve lots of visitors. The Roan Wall has a 5.8 bolted pitch, a 5.4 cracks pitch, then a bit of scrambling before 8 more pitches up the steep wall. Mostly small edgy face climbing, although the last 3 pitches have cracks mixed in. Locate bolts on the above bulge to begin climbing. The 5th (crux) pitch involves a leftward move close to the belay The last 3 pitches have fun crack climbing. Then you top out and are a short walk from this: Scramble off the top of the Roan Wall by walking along to the left, then across to the base of Salish Peak. Every pitch is mixed crack and face, with lots of fun exposed moves. The 3 hardest moves are all somewhere in the 5.10 range and you could AO on a draw. Pitch 1 Darin had told me that the face move was 5.11something and I A0ed without trying it out. He freed it on TR and said it was more like .10c The 6th pitch was spectacular face and crack... maybe the best of the route. You can rappel the route in 5 double-rope rappels, using fixed stations. The black webbing/grey mammut runners are ours. From the base of the route, we high-tailed it back to the car in 3:40, because I insisted to Darin that we complete the day wihout headlamps. After all, the solstice is good for something, right? (The trailhead is at the base of the landslide in the distance) Cheers to Chris Greyell for putting up the routes, and to Payless Shoes, whose $20 sneakers passed the test. Also, the gas station in Darrington gives out all its hot food for free after 10pm:hcluv: , so thanks to Darin for putting up with my erratic driving when my hunger-crazed brain payed more attention to Taquitos than turns on the highway. Darin was a great partner even though he originally tried to get me to leave Bellingham at 2:30 AM! This linkup is one of the best rock climbs I've done, it should be high on the to-do list!

How much snow might one have to deal with to reach the start of Backbone Ridge and to get back of Dragontail? I'm wondering about carrying crampons/axe on the route. Thanks.

Yakima Herald Story Today http://yakimaherald.com/page/dis/289173246695773 No way through -- Road battle brews in isolated town By SCOTT SANDSBERRY YAKIMA HERALD-REPUBLIC SCOTT SANDSBERRY/Yakima Herald-Republic This stop sign sits nearly 13 miles up the Stehekin Valley Road where the road was washed out by a flood in 2003. In 2006 the National Park Service abandoned the remaining 10 miles of road upriver of the washout cutting off motorized access to the upper valley. STEHEKIN -- A huge photograph of Horseshoe Basin, a breathtaking amphitheater of North Cascade peaks, hung for years in the dining hall of Stehekin Valley Ranch. Visitors marveled at the picture whenever they stayed at the ranch, a timber-beamed lodge with rustic cabins seven miles up-valley from the northwest tip of Lake Chelan. Then, invariably, they would ask for directions to see for themselves the area once described in a 1960 Sierra Club documentary as "a crown jewel of America's scenic grandeur." They don't ask that now. The photograph has been taken down. Lodge owner Cliff Courtney got tired of having to tell visitors that, unless they were willing to don backpacks for a 30-mile round trip, they could no longer get to Horseshoe Basin. Or, for that matter, to myriad other backcountry destinations that Stehekin -- itself accessible only by plane, foot or, usually, a 51-mile boat ride from Chelan -- had long been the portal. In the language of the native Indians, Stehekin meant "the way through." But in October 2003, a 500-year flood washed out the Stehekin Valley Road, which a century earlier had gone nearly to Horseshoe Basin, dead-ending -- to quote that 1960 film -- "in paradise." Now it ends at a rather incongruous stop sign just 13 miles up the valley at a place called Car Wash Falls, barely more than halfway to its original terminus. Last fall, the National Park Service opted to abandon the road upriver from that point, less than two miles into the park-run Lake Chelan National Recreation Area and the Stephen Mather Wilderness. Since then, the tiny, historic community of Stehekin -- at least the half of the 80-some population not employed by the park service -- has been in an uproar. Without the road to the upper valley, those residents say, the tourism on which they depend will continue a decline that has already begun. And firefighting crews will lose access to fight the catastrophic wildfire they fear is coming. And, without the road and without some way to corral the meandering path of the Stehekin River, they say, the death of Stehekin itself -- or, at least, the way of life it has enjoyed since long before the park service came along -- may only be a matter of time. * * * Maintaining "the way through," say the locals, requires only common sense. Parallel to the section of the valley that flooded in 2003, the critical 21/2 miles from just below Carwash Falls upriver to the trail junction called Bridge Creek, runs the road's original route -- safely upslope from the river. In the 1930s, though, that stretch of the road, called "the old wagon road" or just the "detour road" by locals, became part of the Pacific Crest Trail and Civilian Conservation Corps crews replaced it with the flood-prone road along the river. The solution is obvious, say Stehekin locals: For those 21/2 miles, simply reroute the main corridor to the "old wagon road" and run the PCT along the river, where a trail would be far easier to maintain and rebuild than a road. The park service's response: Nope, can't do that. The Stehekin Valley Road is bounded on both sides by the Mather Wilderness, a 100-foot right-of-way that, according to the 1988 Washington Park Wilderness Act and the 1964 Wilderness Act, cannot be moved. SCOTT SANDSBERRY/Yakima Herald-Republic From left, Cragg Courtney, Ron Scutt, John Wilsey (with daughters Beth and Sarah), Cliff Courtney and Phil Garfoot discuss Stehekin's concerns over the closure of its valley road. The locals' answer to that: Change the law. "This is not a roads versus non-roadless area matter. This is about a common-sense fix," says Ron Scutt, who runs a bike-rental business and is president of the non-profit Stehekin Heritage. "There (would be) no net loss of Wilderness, the Crest Trail users get to follow a more beautiful route and the road is reopened. It's just common sense." It would also take an act of Congress, like one working its way through right now: the Wild Sky Wilderness Act, which would create a 167-square-mile wilderness near Stevens Pass. That act has made it through the House, and state Sen. Linda Evans Parlette, R-Wenatchee, sees it as a natural vehicle on which to attach a rider allowing the minor adjustment to the Stehekin Valley corridor. "If it involves no net gain or net loss of wilderness, it's just a practicality of doing what some of these other parks have done," Parlette says, who is hoping Democratic Congressman Norm Dicks will champion just such a rider. Some other national parks, Parlette points out, have similar Wilderness issues that, by comparison to Stehekin and the North Cascades National Park/Lake Chelan National Recreation Area, are much less constrictive. Alaska's Denali National Park has a lengthy road corridor that, as in Stehekin's case, predated the park and designated Wilderness through which it runs. But Denali managers can shift the road when necessary, affecting up to 5,000 Wilderness acres, without requiring Congressional approval. But the Washington Park Wilderness Act -- which established the Mather Wilderness on both sides of the Stehekin Valley Road -- included no wording for such adjustments. Says Parlette, "I honestly believe that was an oversight." Bill Paleck, who retired this year as North Cascades National Park superintendent, disagrees. "I think the congressional intent, which is the road would be placed within that 100-foot wide non-wilderness corridor, was clear," Paleck says. "If they had other intentions, they certainly didn't make it clear in the language of the act." Roy Zipp, the park's environmental protection specialist, agrees that the "old wagon road" was probably where the non-Wilderness corridor should have been in the first place. "Folks knew where to put roads in the good old days," he says. But the park service can't simply move the road back. It doesn't enact laws. "This is really an issue for the legislative branch now," Zipp says. "I feel for the folks in Stehekin. They're in a difficult spot. In a lot of ways, there's a good argument to say that Stehekin should be held to a different standard, because it's such a unique place." * * * How unique? Few Stehekin cars carry current license tabs; many don't even have plates to put them on, because the Department of Motor Vehicles decided long ago that Stehekin's remoteness made it a special case. When people pay $125 to have a car barged over from Chelan, it's usually there to stay. Almost every private door in Stehekin remains unlocked. Ignition keys sit in unattended cars and motorcycles. Yet there is virtually no crime. The locals watch out for each other: In the most recent "crime wave," about five years ago, an outsider broke into a few homes, was caught by locals and handed over to Chelan County Sheriff's deputies. The nearest medical doctors are in Chelan, but there are enough emergency-medically-trained people in Stehekin that folks don't fret about it. "If somebody's in trouble up here, you'll get more help than you can dream of -- and it's good help," says Cragg Courtney, a member of the sprawling Courtney family tree whose branches make up the bulk of the non-park service residents. "That's how it is here. You've got a group of people in this community who will support you." And who don't want to be supported by anybody else. When community-wide satellite phone service was proposed recently, most locals were against it -- primarily because, though low-cost to them, its immense expense would be federally subsidized by the Universal Service Fund, something that to many manifestly self-reliant Stehekins smacked of socialism. "It's a handout, basically. It's just not right," says Cragg Courtney, one of the handful of locals who pay for their own satellite phones or satellite Internet, at vastly more expensive rates than they'd pay anywhere else. "We pay for that ourselves, and nobody else is paying it for us. That's the main thing." But the road problem is something the locals can't take care of themselves. They can't move the road because of the Wilderness Act. They can't simply armor the banks of the river and regulate its recent flood-driven course -- one that has already eroded away nearly an acre of Stehekin Valley Ranch property and will likely take much more -- because of federal guidelines in the Clean Water, the Endangered Species and National Wild and Scenic Rivers acts. "If we could make our own decisions," says Don Pitts, the town's retired postmaster, "it would already have been done. And if you think erosion is bad now, wait until a good fire comes in and clears all that out." The upper valley, from which the prevailing winds blow, has the same bark-beetle and spruce budworm blight that has browned much of the thick-forested eastern Cascade slopes, making it susceptible to just such a lightning-strike wildfire. And the road closure erases the ability to truck firefighting crews closer to those slopes, where they might be able to keep a smaller wildfire from becoming the monster that wipes out the town. "It's definitely generally acknowledged to be a huge threat," says Bob Nielsen, Chelan County Fire District 10 commissioner. "It's important for Stehekin to get that road back." And, perhaps, not only for Stehekin, since its lodges' guestbooks show hundreds of entries not just from far-off states, but far-off countries. "Throughout the world," says Don Duncan of Renton, a veteran climber who has used the Stehekin Valley to reach numerous peaks, "there may be no place else quite like Stehekin." Indeed, it's a warm, welcoming place where everybody waves at you, a place without locked doors or crime, where visitors ride around on 1960s-era fat-tired bicycles while ogling deer and the occasional black bear, and where, for decades, they could head off, as the old Sierra Club documentary said, into "paradise." But not any more. "A lot of the areas that are the most magnificent, people just can't get to any more," says Randall Dinwiddie, owner of the Silver Bay Inn in Stehekin. "It's like going to Disneyland and only being able to do the cup-and-saucer tour." "We need a federal delegation to get behind us -- to understand the valley needs the road economically, but the visitor needs the road recreationally. It's an access issue," Cliff Courtney says. "This has to be more than just a little frontcountry experience, a rock wall and an interpretive sign. "Stehekin deserves better than that."

you'd want the North Cascades Forum. Sorry I can't help with your question though.

just do a search under the username "Blake"

Nope... you got it wrong Grew up lower-midde class in california/olympia Could have gotten in to any university in Washington Has never taken a class in Huxley College Is not blasting bellevue roots, but is critique a lifestyle that seem to overly value cars/money/materialism nice try! See Logical Fallacies.. "Ad Hominem"

I don't know why there are more hummers and giant SUVs in suburban bellevue than out in the sticks. I guess they were just marketed well to soccer moms and guys looking to "compensate".

I have my graduation ceremony from WWU saturday, so i can't do it. my memory is that on PoP, it is either the last two or the last 3 bolts which were not near cracks. Basically you can reach up and clip a bolt just before pulling the crux moves,which you'd fall on if you blew the 5.11+ crux. I actually fell on this bolt before getting the moves later. If the bolt had not been there, I likely would have fallen ~8-10 feet, from where my partner and i both identificed a good finger crack that is directly on route. However, since i didn't do that, I can't say for SURE, but i can say with 99% sureness. p1 of Jap gardens is another example of an .11+ climb where you pull the crux with pro ~at your feet. Anyways, on PoP i'd say that leaving in that "crux" bolt and the one or two above it on the blank easy slab are what (in my perfect world)should be done, but i think the route would be safe even without the crux bolt, though more heady. On Javelin, my partner and i eyed the route and both thought that the first bolt, to protect your boulder problem onto the rock itself was handy. That is because if you fell, you'd slide/tumble down the hill... all other bolts on the climb were near cracks, although the last bolt is next to a 4" THIN flake crack, so that bolt might need to stay to protect the flake. I recall only the (~1?) post crux slabby bolt on Gun Rack being not near a crack. There are good cracks at both the roofs, and below. On another climb at the Special Spot, to the left of the Javelin, there is a mix of crack climbing below, and slab climbing hugher up. Just below an intermediate anchor (which we needed to rap off with a 60m rope) there was a bolt about 12" from a splitter crack, and the whole thing was only about 5 feet of easy climbing from the chains... maybe if anyone else checks out these 4 climbs this weekend then can see if they agree with the assessments of myself and my partner. Those are my recollections and thoughts, and i did speak with my partner about all that stuff at the time. I'm just confused why the cracks on Drop Out (just left of red tide) and Decathlon were NOT bolted, yet crack sections on nearby routes were. -Blake

Any tricks or things to keep in mind when rapping off DH-LA with a 60m rope? (first time rapping the UTW)

Gun rack is protectable at nd above the crux, at which point the climb is essentially over. The 5.3 slab leading to the chain might be devoid of cracks. As I've said about three times, P.o.P. would take gear the whole way up to a point ~knee high when pulling the crux (crack below your left hand) beyond this point, the easy climbing protected a couple bolts might also be unprotectable by gear. I just don't understand why climbs like Drop Out, and Decathalon, were left unbolted on the crack sections, but the nearby Javelin, Perils of Pauline, and a couple others were just bolted alongside cracks. I'll quit bitching about it now though.... If I actually knew how to pull bolts and patch holes I might do that, but I don't so I wont.

Anyone want to get out and climb Erie on Friday afternoon/evening? I want to investigate some stuff on the main wall above snag buttress. 206 779 7526

Go out and look for yourself. You will find that in most cases, these "cracks" are problematic on one way or another for trad leading. It most cases, they are either weak flakes, offwidth flakes, laybacks, flares, etc. I'd have to say that in the case of The Javelin that most of those arguments don't fly. As a layback it is simply a lot easier to protect and they thought it would see a lot more traffic that way (bolted), which is true- 5.10- bolted, but 5.10+/5.11- on gear only. Gorilla my dreams is another example, although a more extreme one. It could be led on gear, but you'd need multiple big pieces (5-6") whereas Javelin could be led on a single set to 4". In answer to MCash's question, Ron Cotman did many of the routes at Clem's/Special Spot/Retardant Rock. I've got to call BS on that... several of those routes can be perfectly 100% safe to climb if 3 or 4 or 5 bolts were removed (although, like on Perils of Pauline, there were one or two necessary ones) Calling the Javelin .10+ or 5.11 if you had to place gear? Are you kidding Brian?

maybe PM Sobo on this site, it think he lives there.

Tim, you can fit a lot of junk food and cinnamon rolls in a hat like that. Good to have along on our next alpine adventure I think. Better bring it next week!

Equivocation thy name is Blake. So the goal post has changed…at least a bit. (From Safely to runout) I wonder specifically which bolts are by cracks on Perils that can be safely removed? How did you determine the climbability of Perils? Peter, I think if you re-read the above you will note that in both cases I said most (but not all) bolts on those routes could be removed without making the climb unsafe or runout. I never changed goalposts, I just think that bolts should only be on parts of the wall that don't feature solid cracks. Still wondering....I wonder specifically which bolts are by cracks on Perils that can be safely removed? How did you determine the climbability of Perils? So if the last bolt was the only bolt on Perils would it be runout or safe? I determined it by climbing Perils of Pauline. as far as I remember, all bolts before the crux bolt (so all but the last 2 or 3) were near pefect gear placements. Even the "crux" bolt could be chopped, though you'd have to pull the 5.11+ move with small a TCU/Alien/Nut near your feet.

Equivocation thy name is Blake. So the goal post has changed…at least a bit. (From Safely to runout) I wonder specifically which bolts are by cracks on Perils that can be safely removed? How did you determine the climbability of Perils? Peter, I think if you re-read the above you will note that in both cases I said most (but not all) bolts on those routes could be removed without making the climb unsafe or runout. I never changed goalposts, I just think that bolts should only be on parts of the wall that don't feature solid cracks.

There are tons of bolted climbs that are too hard or too "bold" for me, and Peter_Puget is right, Perils of Pauline with NO bolts would be rather runout. I just thought it was strange for so many climbs in a trad area to featured bolted cracks. I'm not trying to get recognized Tony, I'm surely not the first person to notice this.

As far as the Javelin, you can protect it very safely with a single set of cams up to a #4 camalot. The #4 goes in near the top, and as long as the flake didn't break in the event of a fall, you'd be fine. I didn't take issue with that top thin-flake-protecting bolt so much as all the other very useless bolts below. Even if the flake is not safe for pro, there should be only a couple bolts on there.