Rad

Galcier skills are best learned in a course or workshop, though you can practice some items straight out of FOH with a few friends. Another way to gain experience is by going on non-technical outings and gradually head into steeper and more rugged terrain. You don't have to be on Mt Rainier to practice self-arresting. Buy the Scrambles book and go when conditions allow. Start logging some miles. Hook up with like-minded partners. The Mounties are made for people like you, but there are other ways to go too. It all depends on your personal style. The bushwhackers are good peeps BTW.

Many good comments and resources above. Nobody believes they'll land on the wrong side of statistics, and that's part of the problem. Just ask what cancer docs hear from patients, what search and rescue teams hear from their subjects, and what lottery ticket buyers have to say. Unfortunately, many people search for the data that support the conclusions they've already made rather than absorbing the data with an open mind and seeing what conclusions it leads them to make. It's not the fall that kills you. It's the sudden stop.

As a courtesy, the other thread should be limited to condolences and a celebration of the lives of those lost in recent avalanches at Stevens and Alpental. This one is a place you might explore the ideas you've been incubating. ................ Context: in this arena I am very conservative and rarely head into the backcountry because I am anxious about avalanches and recognize that I don't have the skills or knowledge to be confident I can make the right decisions to avoid making a fatal error. This means I miss some fantastic experiences, I'm sure, but I'm willing to make that trade-off. My thoughts are that the risks of backcountry skiing and boarding can be very high at times, but part of the essence of those experiences, like others in climbing, is that each person takes responsibility for his or her own actions and accepts the consequences without blaming others. IMHO, every aspect of our society could use more of this attitude of assuming responsibility. I just hope it doesn't result in more lives lost. But it will. Personally, I was impressed with the airbag system that supposedly saved the life of one of the Stevens party. It would seem (again from my uneducated perspective) to be far more useful than an avy beacon. That said, it could create a false sense of security. It's not going to save you if you're swept over a large cliff as apparently happened in the Alpental accident. It's not going to protect you from slamming into trees or other obstacles at high speed. It's probably not going to prevent you from being injured or killed during the slide, particularly a wet/heavy slide. But it might greatly reduce the chance you'll be buried in a slide. This is an excellent scientific article on the impact of safety training on avalanche-related accidents: Avalanche safety article Live your life with open eyes.

I was diagnosed with mild early DC a few years ago. Supposed to be hereditary but one wonders if climbing has an impact. Doesn't hurt or interfere with climbing or other activities. Yet.

Good thread and an interesting article. A few thoughts: I agree with JH that risks can be divided into external/objective ones (e.g. avalanche, rockfall) and internal/subjective) ones (immediate human error). I stick to rock climbing because I believe it contains far fewer objective risks than ice or alpine climbing. But as some have said, managing risk and overcoming fear are integral to the climbing experience. The Climber 9-1-1 article has a section on risk management that was interesting to research and you might find worth reading. http://mountaineers.org/NWMJ/10/101_Rescue2.html Part of the message is that the perception and management of risk goes far beyond climbing. It is part of the human condition. For better or worse, the vast majority of humans, regardless of political inclincations and educational achievements, make decisions first and then seek evidence to rationalize and justify these decisions. Add to this the fact that almost everyone overestimates their own abilities and you have a recipe for bad decisions. There is no one-size-fits all answer. We each must choose our own path and live or die with the consequences. I just hope you all make your choices with your eyes wide open.

If you're passionate about Chem choose the best program you can get into and deal with the 2 years or so it takes to get through. Then you're more likely to get a quality job in a place where you want to live afterward. If you're not passionate about school then you'll be wasting your time and money. Better to find something you are excited about. Life's too short to be chasing the wrong dream. BTW, UW has a great Chemistry program, not to mention ChemE.

Lizard at GNS is great fun, but it's not continuous. There is one mandatory fist jam on p1. P2 you can get by with some liebacking. P3 is flaring chimney. P4 is undercling/lieback to hands. All pitches are really short. In fact, you can TR the entire thing with 2 60s on the chains at a belay up on GNS.

http://www.seattlehand.com/ Best if you have insurance. They have a PT group as well as the surgery side. I've had them do evaluations of two injuries. Neither needed surgical intervention, thankfully. Good luck.

Looks great, Mike! See you on the flip side. R

UKC article Lama has realized a bold vision and made an impressive mark on CT history. I am duly impressed. The US climbing community should stop bashing him and instead take Kennedy and Kruk to task for unilaterally acting against the will of the CT climbing community in stripping off all of those bolts. Mark me, I would have wanted to strip the bolts too, but I wouldn't have done it knowing the climbing community had agreed to keep them there. Channeling Ken Nichols is not the answer.

Awesome outing. Thanks for posting. It's cool to see photos of what that area looks like up close. It looks like winter is a reasonable time to go. After the snow melts it's a prickly jungle up that way.

Good style and good judgement. Kudos.

Um, this is the noob forum. Supposed to be G-rated. No, not that G!

That's what Facebook is for, Gene.

5.7? 5.9? 5.12? 5.14? Who cares? Grades don't matter. It's about passion, perseverance, and personal growth. Those who set ambitious goals and dedicate themselves to trying to achieve them just might, against all odds, succeed. Those who don't surely won't. ............................................. We're just sharing the stoke here. I hope you find fulfillment in pursuing your own dreams, whatever they may be. Peace.

Awesome Sol. I hope we'll connect for some climbing somewhere - maybe Little Si. One route there on my list that's in your range is Bust the Rhythm (12c). I also hope you and others will climb Skullduggery at X38 (mid-12?). It's a fantastic route.

Still making the list, but it will include: 1 - Get/stay fit and avoid injury. 2 - Give my best shot on a dream project beyond my abilities. 3 - At least one crag route FA. 4 - At least one alpine route FA. 5 - Get the kids climbing a few times.

Viesturs? Someone to talk about the role of Mt Rainier providing a training ground for bigger mountains? I think we need to move fast while the public's attention is on the matter. OW, yes it's a bandaid, but part of what is provided is the idea that a lot of people care and are willing to dip into their own resources to help a little bit. Our world could use more of that.

I like the idea of a memorial fund. Ambivalent about a memorial climb, UNLESS it is used as a way for us all to raise more $ from sponsors to augment the memorial fund.

RIP Ranger Anderson. What a tragedy. Alex, a fund for her kids is an excellent idea. IMHO we should contribute it as "the climbing community". This would have the added benefit of sending a good message to the surviving rangers and others. Clearly, justice needs to be served, but I think there are two lives lost here. We don't have the full story, but this young man apparently served our country in Iraq, suffered PTSD and depression as a result, and probably was not given the medical care he needed to safely re-enter society. If our government fails thousands of vets in this way is it surprising that a number of them commit suicide and some snap and commit horrible crimes? I hope someone will take a hard look at the VA. There's much more to the other side of this story than we've been told.

I know someone (on this board) who had a disagreement with a ranger in the field regarding a lack of a back country permit, was issued a citation, contested it in court, and was handed an additional fine when the judge felt he not only committed the offense but did so willfully and indicated he would gladly do it again. Attitude in court is important. Being humble and earnest is more likely to yield a good outcome than being ornery. The angle to pitch, IMHO, is that there was no sign indicating the parking area in question was subject to the permit requirement and a reasonable person might think it was ok to park there. If you subpoena the ranger you may be headed down the path of my friend mentioned above. Good luck! If our states, cities, and counties could fund parks we wouldn't have this dumb pass in the first place.

Thanks for posting, Rainman. I know a number of next-generation route developers, including myself, whose philosophy is very close to what you've described: live and let live, and strive to develop great routes that others will follow and enjoy for ages to come. We are VERY fortunate to have so many wonderful FA adventures waiting our own backyards. If I ever feel sorry for myself I read the Orygun forum and feel much better right away

Well, it's probably safer than some of the fuzzy noodles I've seen you bring to the crag.

Don't forget your manly leather gloves!

Been waiting for someone to pull of a winter ascent - I guess yours counts as fall, but who cares. Nice work! Lots more lines to be had out there...