Dane

Just don't be confused Marc...it aint me in those pics!

Couple of guys last week on Rundle......ya I am stoked Can't beat that approach http://www.gravsports-ice.com/icethreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1675/Main/668/#Post1675

Here is a more recent view..

Awesome post Don, thank you! I was looking for some varification to my own experience. I also started with Chouinard rigids and because of the worry on breakage went to SMCs. Only the addition of clip on bindings convinced me to leave the SMCs behind. So I still have a pair of the last Selewa/Chouinard clipons. That is the crampon that brought me to this discussion. I also have size 12 feet so I know a rigid boot is hard to come by. My last pair of leathers were Haderers. Heavy but my goodness they fit and climbed well. I was pretty shocked last winter playing with different crampons on the same climb. Because of that I have a silly amount of scrap iron and different boot styles in the basement at the moment. One of my first goals this winter is to find a set up (or set ups) that I think does work well in comparison. I am thinking it must be in part our large feet that adds to the issue and turns the "semi/rigid" into "the hinged crampon/boot combos have been a bit sloppy, a touch inaccurate, lacking in fine control." Although I know Frieh's feet are close in size as well. For me a dead rigid boot is mandatory for "fun" ice climbing. The battle between weight and boot sole flexability goes on but. I have found nothing that is as solid and as comforting as a rigid soled boot and a rigid crampon on steep ice or long alpine ice routes. On shorter modern M climbing stuff it hasn't seemed to make a difference. My old stand by combo for rock or "mixed" to 5.10 was plastic boots and hinged crampons so I am not too surprised guess. Having the crampon move bit I suspect does keep you on the rock longer. Either way I'll let you know my impressions after I get a chance to climb on the gear I have here. Thanks again to all for the input.

Looks like a bolt of lightening spliting the baby ass smooth granite above the climber. Awesome looking finger crack? Any idea where it is at?

Sadly this one is now only a shadow of it former self. But just a few years ago it was another classic ice gully!

Yep Mariacher. These came from Mtn Gear. Climb is "Weasles side 2", originally a 1985 trad route, still .11c but recently bolts were added at the crux sections. Nice shoe, beautifully made. I used them one some face climbs but the Fire' Cats or Ballets always fit me better. Funny stuff and a long time agao now

Marc! you aren't old enough to remember those

Some may have seen this on Gadd's sight, well worth a read if you haven't..enjoy! David Dornian wrote the following about Frank Jourdan's summer for the Calgary Mountain Club World News' alpine report in 1994. "A stiff little reminder of what can be accomplished when you put a few caffeine pills into your butt bag, hang a couple of ropes and your shoes off your harness, and get out whilst everyone else is still "waiting for things to come into condition" What did YOU do on your summer vacation? In July, visiting German alpinist Frank Jourdan managed a quick two-week trip to the Canmore/Banff/Jasper corridor to finish off a North American tour. Discovered sleeping in his car at the ACC clubhouse parking lot in Canmore, he was taken into town by staff, coffeed up, and the following amazing tale was extracted in halting English. It seems that a few days previously, Frank had driven north to the Columbia Icefields where he soloed a route he referred to as "Skyladder Direct" on Mt. Andromeda. He then descended the line, crossed the glacier to the northeast, and ascended "The Shooting Gallery". From there, he traversed the summit of Andromeda, climbed down one of the "Practice Gullies" and moved across too the base of "The Andromeda Strain". In the dark now, he ascended the "Strain" by headlamp, carried on past the Andromeda/Athabasca col, over the summit of Athabasca in blowing conditions and what he called "...very strong snow" and arrived back at the parking lot 45 hours after he had left. There's more. Moving north a bit, Frank then soloed the Robinson/Arbic on the North Face of Cromwell. And more... Next, he attempted the North Face of Alberta. Going up without a rope, Frank decided he didn't like the inconsistent nature of the rock band above the icefield, and so he traversed off the face and descended the NE ridge. As a consolation, he bagged the peak by the Japanese Route before returning to the highway. And still more... He drove to Jasper and had a look at the North Face of Edith Cavell, coming down because of wet rock and unconsolidated snow. And finally. Returning south past Mt. Kitchener, where he soloed the Grand Central Couloir - "Only to be climbed ven zer's eis..." - apparently spending over an hour tunneling through the summit cornice. Wait... After resting and cragging around Canmore for a few days, Frank decided that he wanted "...perhaps one more peak" before he headed home to Germany. When he showed up at Acephale around noon on Sunday, looking for Todd, we mercilessly insisted that he have a go on Mirror Stage 12b. Heh, heh. After all, we pointed out to this quiet little guy in the pilled fleece, there was already a rope on it; he might as well give it a shot. Protesting that he was "probably quite tired...", he dutifully pulled on a pair of shoes and sent the rig first try. A little while later, he did the same to Bleu du Ciel 12b, loosing his feet during the hideous sloper match at the crux and simply pulling up and locking off while he reached across for the next crimp edge in the sequence. Now willing to let him be our friend, we engaged Frank in conversation. Turns out he had spent the day before climbing the Blanchard/Robinson on the North Face of Howse Peak, avoiding the A3 chimney and block via the ice in the gash out right (which he admitted was slow going and "very technical" [and which Peter Arbic, the only other person to go that way, reportedly characterizes as "Death" - ed.] and had been forced to sleep on the mountain that night, prior to descending and running up to meet us at the crag. Dave Dornian"

Had a similar discussion about that just the other day. It is true. Not taking anything away from Mugs or Paul mind you. They, (Mugs) had the stones to actually pull it off. Realising now what they were dealing with and the gear used makes the climb all that more impressive to me. But when they started rapping from the top of the butt all of us (lame asses) sitting @ the air strip on the glacier by that time were thinking a rescue was going to have to be mounted shortly ...and no one was excited about that. Made for a big party when they hit the glacier again under their own power. Mugs may have poached the route and not "finished" the climb but they took the level of committment higher than any of us thought was possible or at least willing to try. I remember a conversation that Mark Twight related to me that he had had with my partner from that trip...when Brad accused Mark of poaching "his" line by climbing Deprivation. Joking or not Mark wasn't all that pleased by the accusation and I could hardly blame him. Big difference between going on a climb with all the parties hopping the 'shrund on the same day and the difference of 13 years! I didn't go back. (it was my second try at what was to become Twight/Backes' route, Deprivation, and it was obvious to me that we weren't up to the crux with lwt gear in '78 or '82) Below is a pic from one of the fun, 70 to 80 degree, lower ice strips that runs on and on. The red slashes near the ice on the climber are the red plastic bot plates on his Footfangs for a referenec as to how steep it is. In '79 Doug Klewin, Pat McNerthney and Todd Bibler gave it a try. Then in '80 WPOD showed up for their second try, which was Doug Klewin, Pat and Dan McNerthney and Rob Newsom. They got to the base of the Shaft before being literally blown off the MTN in a storm. In '81 the foursome was back (as Back in Black) set to do some wall climbing. They had a portledge (they had ditched the Bibler I Tents) problem before the prow, went down to fix it and had to suffer through watching Mugs and Paul finish "their line". I think it was Rob Newsom in his southern drawl who said to me..."sheet that is like having to watch some guy fuck your old lady". But it could have been said by any of us staring up at the butt those couple of days. But Dougie aka Druggie, aka Doug Klewin and Todd Bibler came back the next year with much lighter gear (Bibler I Tents again) and completed the first complete ascent to the summit with the classic start. Newsom and Pat McNerthney came back and finished the line to the summit as well. Making the 1st and 2nd ascents of the entire line. NW hard guys were poached, but they had the ultimate payback, just didn't get the glory Mugs was obviously a great climber and very nice guy but the BIB gang are the heros imo if for nothing else than determination. Others tried the route as well during that time frame, among them, Gary Bocarde, Dale Bard, Charlie Porter, Jim Bridwell, Brad Johnson, Kim Momb. Muggs was the niciest guy and if any of us had asked him to wait I suspect he would have. BIB went up and came down with portaledge problems. Seemed fair...now Mugs got his chance and to almost everyone's surprise kept going to the top of the butt. But the truth is, as good as the climbers involved were, Mugs just was mentally a whole lot stronger that particular month in '81. He was originally planning on soloing the route!

Hummmm..... Hyping? Bad accident? Really bad accident? Shit, I can tell you from recent experience any fall can be a "really bad" accident. Been thinking about reactions to this post over night. Many of the bigger alpine routes of Canada were done in the '60s and '70s. All are dangerious even in the best conditions. I can't think of a classic N face in Canada that hasn't had a serious accident or death in the last 40 years. Conditions change in the the mtns....all mnts. Few die doing them. The Eiger supposedly was unclimbable a few years ago because it was too dry. Slipstream too dangerious because of serac fall. Andromeda Strain to dangerious because of the rock fall If you include GCC add any excuse you like. North face of Athabasca went from 5.4 to M6. The list goes on and on. But then all get climbed on a regular basis, winter/spring and summer. More so now than ever before. Only thing that has really changed is the percentage in the number of climbers out who are willing to accept the risks involved. This photo is from late Sept in 2005 A fuzzy pic but you can easily see the distinct lack of ice and the huge water/stone troughs in the lower gully in the fall of 1975. I know from the pics what year I would have choosen given the chance. And that is 30 years difference. If last winter was any inclination in the Rockies I would have never believed there was an issue with global warming. (which I do believe btw) The Rockies had a long cold snap, lots of snow and water ice every where. Up high the peaks I got on at over 10K were colder than normal with a LOT more snow. When spring did come, it came fast with warm temps instantly. I'm interested to see what happens this season. One of the Parks guys told me a couple of weeks ago it was "winter already" in the icefields....a month or so early. Been climbing in the Rockies for almost 40 years now. I have been on Deltaform 5 or 6 different times, done two routes and can be fairly confident in my assessment that not a lot has changed over the years when you look at alpine conditions is general. Yes it is drier, but then we now climb in different seasons. Not jack worth of difference between the 2004 photo and photos I have from the early '70s. Hard alpine climbing has always been about conditions. Be it the north side of Rainier or the water ice on Hood or the N face of Alberta. Having met a few young lions lately taking up alpinism I was asked to add a few (old) trip reports since there is little here on classic alpine routes. More fun than a dry old guide book and I agree the web site would be better for it.

Good point Chad. Been more than a few killed on this climb recently including some NW locals. Slipstream, Deltaform and Cavell hold the high water marks on the Mountaineering Accidents in Canada list. In my limited experience Fall was never a great season for the "gully" climbs (Kitchener and Popes are others). Most are better done in spring after the snow pack has settled a bit or winter on a good snow year. Just might be a less real ice which may not be a bad thing Those three climbs aren't technically all that hard and easy enough in good conditions ( and draw bigger crowds because of it)...but in bad conditions all can easily kill you. Never hurts to remember it is a Lowe/Jones route as well. The accident report you mention is easy to find on Google. One of many other accidents on Deltaform here: http://mountrainierclimbing.blogspot.com/2006/04/charlie-borgh_24.html. All said some of the bigger climbs have gotten easier/less dangerious with more water ice/less snow in the right season (Slipstream and GCC come to mind), some harder with less ice. If you can climb it its generally easier If you don't it might well be harder

Great call Trog!

Blackwater is a private corp with deep "insights" into many governmental venues, in many countries besides are own. Simply because the owner, most employees and all the management @ Blackwater are ex military with long and multiple contacts with all the players. PMC's pay won't be going down (at least in the near future) and they won't be going away in your life time. I suspect the pay scales (assuming equal skills) will change over time depending on demand and the local workig environment. But that could mean wages going up, just as likely as going down. But short term the contracts with Blackwater, CACI, Dyna Corp, Aegis, Haliburton or the dozens of other contractors aren't likely going to be changed or negated by Obama nor will he want to with Blackwater. Blackwater adds additional cover for DSS (U.S. Diplomatic Security Service) for a reason. Guys now working for Blackwater have trained DSS for years, while doing tier one anti terrorist jobs in our military branches. Our government trusts ALL of our diplomats to those same people and their skills just for that reason. The US military puts well over a million dollars into each spec op soldier just to get them started in their military careers. Blackwater is a perfect example of the US goverment taking advantage of that original investment. Look here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_contractor

The guy in the yellow pants real name is Terry...but not likely that any of you will like know him by that. His buddy is Paul. But I bet ALL of you know who they are and the one climb they did together. You guys are making me feel really OLD

Point well taken. If you do the design right, pulling the girth hitch isn't a big deal, if the section of different climbing is worth the effort. Tool like a Nomic makes it less of an issue. Either way you need a hole big enough to girth hitch too easily. Also easy enough to plunge a tool while still hooked up on the spike even with elastic, a bit easier if you don't have a biner getting in the way or can easily just reclip to the head of the tool. Although it makes a better self belay clipped directly to the head if you are plunging. But works fine either way. Advantages ways..biners are easy to use, girth hitched is a cleaner set up and generally more fail safe. Disadvantage is the contraption of biner and swivel or the hassle of rehitching a different location.

You got it, the pic above is the face on Deltaform you see from the top of Mt Temple or the Sentinel Pass trail.

Mtn. is Deltaform, Valley of the Ten Peaks, CAN. Pics in the above post are from Super Coulior. The gully is a garbage chute for the entire face. As Dick Renshaw said in the Guide to the Rockies South, "in foul weather it is more dangerious than the Eiger". Also a good description in Dougherty's excellent "Selected Alpine Climbs". But, OH MY GOD, what a line! Enough alpine ice (1000m) to make it worth the 2 pitches of shitty rock to get you out of the gully. Top pic is from the narrows mid-way in the upper gully. The shot looking down is from a bit higher up, just below the rock band. The snow arete in the sun below is where you cross over from the lower gully. The other route just to the left on the face isn't a lot easier. With the simple name, North Glacier, it is long, steep and takes some effort to get past the upper ice cliff and final 'shrund. And you still have an ugly decent and a long (15 miles) walk out. Both climbs are well worth the effort! All the pics are in fall conditions. FWIW the pics aren't mine. The upper two are Greg Cronn's (who also did the 2nd on Alberta's N. face with Blanchard) during his and James Blench's ascent, taken in '81 or '82 iirc. The third is from an uncredited pic in an '86 CLIMBING ad. Gwain Oka and I did the second ascent in a storm, 6 or 7 years earlier. I was so happy when we finished the rock band and got out of the gully, I started crying. And really stoked years later to get pics from Greg.

The dude in the yellow bibs used a Curver axe and a Roosterhead for tools if that helps The guy below was politely bitching about the 300+ feet of 9mm he was to belay with as a single rope. The "dude" told me once that it had been so cold in April that his head went numb on the summit bivy....laughing the whole time and swearing it was true! I tended to believe him

That is some weak shit dude ...photo is from May of '81.

Anyone care to name these two? My partner and I have just given the dude in the yellow pants a shoulder to get over the shrund. I have zero recall as to how we actually got over I was just relieved they were heading off to the left, as we wanted to do a line on the right.

Trying to put all my old photos into a digital format and thought some might enjoy this. Can you name the climb? A hint...easy aproach, a sting it the tail and a long ass walk out. (don't spoil the fun if I just mailed these to you I have a lot more if anyone finds them interesting. Looking up..from a little over half way and down from a bit higher. The 2nd and last of the rock pitches with the cornice to get out of the gully.

I am usually good for weekdays given a day's notice.

Very fun to seem some of the old tools. The Chouinard bamboo Piolet has never been equaled let alone bettered imo. Too bad because now it is almost a shame to use them at the going replacement cost. Two Chouinard 55s and a 50 Zero from Camp (all bamboo) after Chouinard first went from bamboo to fiberglass around 1977/'78. The middle axe has had the pick welded up and recut many times over the years. Funny how I could change the upper curve profile, which made no differenece on how the tool climbed but could'nt get more curve on the bottom where it would have. With 3rd and 2nd generation alpine hammers. Kinda in the same theme The 2nd generation of "hard" ice tools. The Terro is a third gen. just before they stopped production. 1st gen was gray in color, 2nd black. Simond Chacal (hammer) and Barracuda (adze, head weights make decent hammer when required) circa 1981/'82. An unlikely pair that will get you up almost anything made of pure ice. The likely suspects today. The ones I used up or sold or traded away that I should have kept? Terro adze, Roosterhead, Forest Lifetimes, Condor/Vulture, Curver. Anyone have any of these around?