Dane

I wasn't trying to define what anyone would/should wear at any given instance so much as what is available for technical insulated clothing currently. We are getting close to super light, water proof, 4 way super stretchy and totally breathable gear. Clothing that will shrug off any environmental influence and allow you to dry items inside that "armor" while moving or sleeping. The other point I was trying to make is that how we label clothing may not be exactly the best use for that particular garment. Lots of "belay" jackets available these days. I have owned many of them. Found very few satisfactory for my own use. (read: cold weather, winter technical climbing) Where I climb in summer may not be the same climatic zone you climb in. Same goes for winter. Icefields in Jan. isn't the Ruth or Chamonix in Jan. What I take for clothing on a 4 day trip is going to be different than what I take on a long day out in the same environment. Everyone's heat output/metabolism changes on a minute by minute basis depending on your health, level of fitness, food and water consumption, level of activity and environmental influences. A Atom LT hoody might be too much at one moment and a DAS not nearly enough the next. Alpine climbing...which was the context of my first post is all about the conditions. Hopefully your choice of clothing is similar. It should change to match the conditions ideally. Although down has some signifigant advantages in specific instances I can't imagine a down jacket ever being able to accomadate the changes in environment/conditions that a modern synthetic jacket easily can. I was trying to point out we have more options in insulated mid layer and outer layer for the alpine environment with the newest light, compressable insulation encased in the most modern water resistant and stretchy shells. Lucky us

Hey Matt I'd really like to take any old copies of MTN mag from you? I'll come pick them up any time that is best for you.

Take a look here for the previous thread...on hoody's for a first or mid layer. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/866219/1 Perfect garments to go under what follows and maybe even ditch your current soft shell outer?! One of the things I have reccently realised is there is a big difference between a belay jacket and a bivy jacket designed specifically for climbing. It has only been with in the last couple of seasons that I have actually seen jackets that I consider real belay jackets. The difference to me is a belay jacket is something light enough that you can really climb hard technical ground in after freezing your ass off on a cold belay and NOT get way over heated and "fried" by the end of the pitch. I still own a bivy jacket. The kind of jacket you would use with a half bag to bivy in ( or bivy in just the jacket) or on Denali for extra warmth with a light bag. But something you'd only climb in on the type of days you really shouldn't be out at all. Windy and cold summit days on Denali or Rainier in winter type of days. Never used one any where else. A belay jacket you'll put on earlier and take off later and then realise you can use it to dry things out as you climb and still not over heat. Your own heat management will be more efficient because of it, if the design and materials are up to the task. Using my terms once you start climbing in a true belay jacket the "bivy" jacket won't see much use. I wouldn't take one that heavy to Denali now. And for many things you might start thinking 1/2 pound of well designed stretchy synthetic insulation might well be be really useful to climb in during some really cold weather...say alpine stuff in Canada's winter. Kinda a heavy weight hoody with wind protection....more like a belay sweater? To coin a new label. Never seen a garment to match that description till just recently. Although Ueli Steck mentioned a similar garmet that he used when soloing the McIntyre/Colton last winter. Which is why I went looking for something similar. While a great piece for climbing, Mountain Hardwear labeled Steck's jacket the "Compressor Hoody". But the commercial version really wasn't what Steck was climbing in. Looks to be a shell and a pile jacket under it. Hard to belive this one is insulated but I liked the idea and where it was used. http://www.alpineexposures.com/pages/ueli-steck-smashes-the-grandes-jorasses-north-face-record I was thinking something more like this ......and this one should be an awesome new garment for cold and nasty weather technical climbing. Mid or outer layer? The ATOM LT Hoody by Arcteryx. 14oz http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Atom-LT-Hoody The Mtn Hardware Compressor Hoody and good example of what I consider a belay jacket. I only use this one as an outer layer but it too could be a mid layer in harsh weather. And one of my all time favorites, here: 19oz http://www.feedthehabit.com/outdoors/mountain-hardwear-hooded-compressor-jacket-review/ Used as a belay jacket here. And rather classic "bivy weight" jacket...admittedly on the light side, the Patagonia DAS. 28oz. http://www.steepplanet.com/proddetail.php?prod=Patagonia-Das-Parka And in use where it is a perfect "fit". http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html or as the perfect "belay" jacket in these photos And something a little thicker and 28oz!....French down circa mid '70s. YMMV of course :>)

Cool! The reason I came up with going in head first, on my back, feet out the door, is you don't have to remove the 'pons till you are really ready to move in. If you can dig the hole it helps keep the tent in one piece as well while still wearing the 'pons. Also makes sitting up to hook the (2nd) other end of the pole in the pocket a lot easier.

An after thought.... When available I will always dig a hole in the snow to drop my feet in. Obviously terrain controlled but if you can pull the tent over you and then sit down with your feet planted outside the tent in that hole it is really easy to lay back and fit the poles in and control the tent, even in really nasty weather. Makes it much easier to get in and out of the tent once it is up as well.

Only used the newest Cobras for part of one season but partners have used them for the last two seasons. I saw a lot of chipped (Cobras)or dinged up (Vipers) hammer shafts with the micro hammer and the radically curved shafts. Quarks have faired a bit better because the hammer is standing away from the shaft farther. Don't remember anyone useing the bigger hammer head. As much as I bust on the NO hammer / NO ADZE, when you need an adze, my perspective is a big one is always better and when you really want a hammer a straight shafted one with a decent size head is better. I did however use the micro hammer and micro adze on my Cobras and thought they balanced well and both micro pieces worked as intended if I avoided operator error. In hard ice the micro adze worked well. Now I am most likely to use Nomic's and when required carry a alpine hammer to pound/clean rock pins as my third tool. And I chop steps with a pick....n/ice or hard snow make that a less than perfect technique. Tent platforms or a bivy ledge can well be problematic without an adze...climb fast

And I thought for sure this was going to be about the NRA...

CCW, Wild Things and Cilo pretty much cover the best of the climbing packs. http://www.wildthingsgear.com/prod_packs.php http://cilogear.com/index.html http://www.coldcoldworldpacks.com/intro.htm Andinista is a pack that will carry everything down and make a great summit pack as well. Cilo offers a nice compression system as well. Never used Randy's larger packs but he used to work at WTs so I suspect he has something similar in his largest packs. The discussion is covering backpacking rigs and true climbing rigs. They are not the same animals. While may be not the most comfortable solution I normally use a true climbing pack on my "back packing" trips. The MH I listed earlier is neither but it was cheap and more importantly, easiy available. Polish route..

Awesome footage...thanks!

No idea about Colfax but made the drive up to Mowick lake TH on the n side of Rainier yesterday morning and a 6 to 8" of hard rain pack at the gate (closed btw) and a LOT more in the last 1000 foot to the lake by the looks of it. Mtn look plastered. Bet the climb would be awesome with a little sun.

No, I don't use power tools. Too easy to thrash the temper/heat treat of the gear that way. I use hand files and a foot wheel with a water bath.

That is quite the compliment Jens, thanks very much. Donnie, very cool pic! To answer your question though, I have climbed on just about everything out there. Generally on Petzl or BD tools these days. Obviously I am not doing everything with just a hand file. I can usually tell what the owner has been up to climbing wise by how trashed the picks are and where. Mixed or thin ice takes a good hook to climb well imo, so I try to accomplish that and save as much pick material as I can for the next major sharpening. Pure ice picks can be a lot simplier to recontour. Once a tooth is removed like I had to on a couple of the one shown above you can resharpen them easily with a flat file for awhile and get some good wear from the pick again. I don't see any problem going a couple of teeth in. Petzl suggests replacing your pick once the first tooth is reached while sharpening. If someone has a way/suggestionon how they want their stuff done and it won't make the pick weaker I am happy to do what ever you ask. Here is some of what I have used or use now although the CF Cobras aren't there. Looking forward to trying out the newest BD Fusion this winter. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/906793/Re_Collections#Post906793

Steve?

Looks like aaron wants to be done with the subject Josh and I were tossing the idea around on the drive to Rainier and back this morning. Of course we solved the problem! Or maybe it was just Collin "Japanese climbers Genki Narumi and Katsutaka "Jumbo" Yokoyama made an attempt on the Wall of Shadows to the top of buttress. From the bergschrund to their highpoint they took NO BACKPACKS(!), just a small waist pack each." http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html Or maybe it was Jon and Will with their kit ...after another 4000' monster and two nights out. http://www.alpineexposures.com/blogs/chamonix-conditions What occurs to me is that most people worry a bunch about what they are going to carry and want to make it as simple as possible. Good idea if you are a back packer. If you are a climber I would think the better thought process might be to worry about and figure out how to not carry anything, ideally. You use the smallest pack that will do the job....4000cu in packs will generally extend to carry more shit than you'll ever be able to haul down hill. And you never bring down everything you carry up no matter how green you are. Ideally you carry the least amount of gear/food to go up and come down safely, nothing more. If you are back packing...things can be more luxurious. Climbers are more frugal....successful climbers extremely frugal, obviously. As Twight said, "open your mind".

Thanks Kevin...let me know if you don't have a partner for Colfax? Here are some before and after shots of one of this week's jobs. Stuff was pretty ratty (like any of it that gets used hard) and I didn't know how long it would take to bring it back. Ended up being 2.5 hrs or $150 total for 9 screws, a front set of Darts and 4 Quark picks. I was surprised by the time required on these. Only way I know to do this is as if they are my own gear. This set required some serious TLC. You have to decide for yourself if the sharpening price is worth it. I could go a full season on 4 picks and a sharp set of screws and "new" Darts. Someone else might climb 4x that much and need a resharpening 3 times in a season. Before and after on some really well worn picks....all down one tooth once resharpened. Before and after Dart and maybe a couple of seasons yet left in them...all the points, front and side are now sharp again.

I've done it most often laying inside the tent, on my back, both poles sticking out the door. Set one pole end in the "hole". Now I sit up and do the other end. Repeat for second pole. Easy to get pole ends into the pockets that way. Lace up the velcro once the poles are in and up. I never stake it out until the tent is up and typically full of gear. Then I crawl out and stake the tent down while my partner holds onto it if the wind is up.

"Does it come with the weight for the pick? Anything wrong with the axe? any major drops? Pick still good?" No pick weight on the Nomic. Nomic is new and unused. Never been outside. Quark is a couple of seasons old and has been beaten around in a gear bag and hauled to Canada a bunch but is a spare and also new. Prices are firm.

New Nomic and new Quark adze for sale. Nomic $235. Quark $200. Minor paint blemishes on the pick from beating around in my gear bag. Both tools have extra "live rubber" wraps on the shafts. Both include shipping in CONUS. Pay Pal works at rdburns@cnw.com

New crampons for sale ....Darts or Dartwin, never used. Choose quick for your choice. Flip lock heel pieces, the best option, on both pair. $165. shipped in CONUS. Pay Pal works for me at rdburns@cnw.com

Montyp is right on imo. After seeing so many folks show up with huge packs and getting trashed on things in the Cascades or Rockies and worse yet on Denali, Rainier and Aconcagua I used this formul for guiding: clients carry no more than 25% of their body weight. You weigh 200# you can carry 50# but NO MORE! You weigh in at 100# soaking wet you never carry more than 25#. No one really liked it as I stripped their packs of personal gear but it worked long term and people got to the summit and more importantly down. In the best of times I could do 50% of my own body weight (as can most everyone else and more) but it would beat me up so I could never do it day in an day out. That should tell you something. Which is why I came up with the 25% limit. Obviously less is always better. I sure as hell never try to carry more than 30#. And 40# is about all that I have ever found "comfortable" no matter what kind of shape I am in. 25% sounds pityful and on flat, easy ground it might well be. Head uphill and add any kind of technical difficulties or even the easy gravel trails above Plaza da Mulas and it won't seem so puny.

I'm not a big fan of huge packs...most can't carry the loads you can stuff in them. No one wants to. Here is my choice for around $200 or less on sale. Done 60+ lbs in mine several times. http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1832&prod=2924&cat=1862&viewAll=False

Soft shells..top and bottom. Add a belay sweater or jacket and a lwt shell to keep the wind or snow out as required. Best system for total freedom of movement I have found. Although I own a bunch of it, haven't used a goretex garment in years, winter or summer in the Cascades or the Rockies. I have however used a lwt uncoated nylon shell top several times winter and summer. I don't climb in the rain. Nov '08..soft shell pants and a uncoated Patagonia shell over a R1 Hoody.

Saw today that Marmot in Bellevue is also carrying the Nepal Evo this winter.

Sold..thanks Tim!

20 months later? I'm an old guy so easily impressed and still learning. Belay jackets aren't bivy jackets. And now we have "belay sweaters"! Good gloves are never light enough. OR is close. Real leashless tools ROCK! As does the newest Black Diamond umbilical. Single boots really aren't dbl boots even with a attached super gaiter. Good thing, as there are now lwt dbl boots because of that fact Stainless crampons are hear to stay! And damn...they do look cool as well.