Dane

Thanks for the feedback guys. Let me answer what I can at the moment. "I'd offer a warranty against broken picks to take the edge of the steep price tag." Thought about that. Problem is with all the mixed stuff people are doing, picks now take some really serious abuse. Having sharpened a few that have been through that and even seen bent Petzl Quad picks and broken Titans picks and the thinner water ice picks from both companies used on hard rock I don't think it is reasonable (cost wise) to offer a free replacement pick program. But I might offer a discounted replacment program if a broken pick is returned. I (we all do) pretty much know the standards I am looking for in durability. If the picks don't meet that I won't be selling them. Been a while since BD offered the Aermet picks. And as Layton has said they were good. Manufacturing techniques have since improved. I am hoping for an even more durable pick. Last I remember BD charged $75 for the Aermet picks and that was 20 years ago. So $100 is really a deal if we can afford to make and sell them at that price. If they are as good as I think they are a time defined free replacement program might well be in order. Something I want to do and do now on other parts we make from Aermet. "Are they going to be shaped like Lasers or Alaskan or Titan picks?" Two versions at least, rock and ice. Think BD Laser/Titan and Petzl Quad/Cascade styles. But both versions will be a little different that the standard BD offerings. A hybrid of sorts as to what is offered now. A pick designed specifically for longevity and performance. Which are not contradictory goals imo. "They are worth the price - just keep up on sharpening them because if you let it go, it can be a pain in the butt to file them. I had mine professionally sharpened and they are pretty much like new." At least you'll know where they can be sharpened "Expected ship date?" Maybe as soon as Christmas '09 for the first batch. Getting the heat treat sorted out this week. "I gather that they're going to be $100 each from you?" At least at first they will only be available through me. We'll have a web site for climbing specific gear up soon and accept PayPal. How the pricing shakes out depends on demand (more sold the cheaper they will be) and any unforseen issues. Although obviously not required I'm pretty excited about a pair of them on these in the alpine!

"Aermet is an ultra-high strength type of martensitic alloy steel. The main alloying elements are cobalt and nickel, but chromium, molybdenum, and carbon are also added. Its exceptional properties are hardness, tensile strength, fracture toughness, and ductility. Aermet is not corrosion resistant so it must be sealed if used in a moist environment. It is a registered trademark of Carpenter Technology Corporation." For those that might be interested in BD compatible picks. I am about to move from prototypes to production on a hybrid pick designed specifically for BD shaft attachments made from Aermet. BD in the past has made and offered Aermet picks but is no longer doing so. Those picks are still highly sought after pieces of specialised technical kit. That production is now years old and as is noted above Aermet is not stainless and will corrode if exposed to moisture. The stress risers in any pick design increase as the picks age from time and use and corrosion occurs. Aermet offers some distinct advantages for durability in ice tool picks. Downside is Aermet in raw form is very expensive and more importantly extremely difficult to machine. Because of that manufacturing costs are high. Retail for the BD compatible Aermet picks will be around $100. Similar to where BD had them priced in their last production. Aermet will offer a much longer service life over the OEM item. It would be a big help to me if you would offer your thoughts on the project here I'm also going to be offering a bolt on Nomic hammer/pick conversion and a small adze/hammer conversion for the Quark shortly. Other projects in the works as well for production modifications to update a few specific models of older tools. Pictures coming asap.

Big things happening out here on the SW WA coast today, warm 50F, wind (gusts 60 to 80mph) and lots of rain. Gotta be hell in the mtns inland. Thanks for the heads up Dan.

Rob check this out and the other "climbing" selection listed there as well. Just found it looking for your old jacket. Cool site and info I think. http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=45342 I have a MX and use it alot and my go to shell garment all winter. But the newest Patagucci piece looks really good as well. FWIW seeing reviews where a garment is well liked for snow boarding tells me that it is likely too warm as a piece of the "action suit" for winter climbing in most reasonable temps.

Buddy and I both had a pair....fubar.

I understand one of the major problems...zero communication skills. Anyone who takes a moment to seriously answer this "ad" will want to be very aware that guiding on Rainier without a permit is illegal and seriously enforced by FEDERAL LE with big fines and jail time on conviction. Same for all the National parks. Rightfully so imo. Accepting "expenses" might be viewed unkindly by the park service. Walks like a duck.....smells like a duck....

I've been making my own for years...lots of years. Alpine Dave's website gives you the details to do it right. Originally I was not a big fan of the swivel. But after all my partners raved about my prototypes which I loaned out (and which they kept trying to steal) I finally gave them a fair test drive myself. All of us have used home made ones and several versions of the Grivel units in the past. Most everyone I climb with now are using the BD unit. The other units have been retired. Like PDK you can easily make your own for $50 or less with no swivel. Which I don't find an issue with and match and switch tools all the time. No big deal. But the swivel is THE ONE big advantage all my partners loved in the BD versions. Less hassle, leashless and umbilicals. It is a good combo. You can just buy the BD unit if it fits you and you get a full strength and really nice swivel. FYI...imo better the umbilicals too short than too long. If you happen to plop off onto your umbilicals (or need to hang) and you can't get back to your tools it makes for a realllllly long day Both of the BD protoype units I have..are too long for anyone under 6'1" and a normal ape index. I was told the new ones have addressed that issue but I have yet to play with a new pair so don't know more. (edit: have the new ones now (11/09) and they are fine...and still on the long side of the ape index) Also worth noting if you are going to kak out $50..the webbing BD is using is hydrophobic and the mini biners were designed to fit almost every tool top and bottom clips and both are umbilical specific. That alone was worth the $50 to me. And enough so, that even my cheap ass partners coughed up $50 for their own "spiner" units. Once that happened if was obvious I had missed the clue bus, again

"Before Max and I leave for Scotland, various ex-pat Brits and Scots stop by our apartment with concerned looks on their faces, wondering if I know what I’m getting myself into: terrifying cornices, Specters hammered into frozen mud, bashing Hexentrics into flared cracks, vertical snow, spicy run-outs, double layers of waterproof clothing, and gloves so sopping wet that days later they still refuse to dry out. Our friends, who long ago forwent ephemeral Scottish conditions to live in the Mecca of Chamonix, France, can’t believe we would travel for the gamble. All of their warnings seem a bit overly dramatic really, as I lust over guidebooks and photos of the sharp andecite edges and breaks, feathery hoar plastering the rock. Scotland looks like a veritable winter wonderland for climbing. The following week, I meet my Scottish climbing partner at the Glenmore Lodge, Simon Richardson. He warns me of the fickle nature of conditions in Scotland as we drive—in the rain—to the Northern Corries, a local crag. He says the temperatures have risen, the hoar has thawed; there is no climbing to be had. “But aren’t there still cracks to climb?” I ask Simon, showcasing my North American ignorance. “Why can’t we just go mixed climb those?” As the windshield is peppered by huge drops of rain, the wipers swiping back and forth at medium speed, Simon explains the rules of the game: “We only climb ground-up, onsight,” he says “and you can only climb when the rock is white with hoar or snow and the turf is frozen. Originally it was to protect the rock from getting scratched and the turf from getting trashed.” “But your crampons will still scrape up the rock even if there is a dusting of snow,” I offer. “Yes, that’s true, but it’s the ambiance,” Simon evenly counters. “You have to look harder for the cracks… and your crampons stick to the ledges on verglas… and you can swing into the turf… and it’s just more beautiful… and challenging.” “So basically the rules are you can’t climb it when it’s easy?” “Well, kind of, but you won’t understand it until you see it.” Hmmm… It seems like I would have to play by the rules, even though they didn’t make sense to me. With our hoods pulled tight, the fabric flapping loudly in our ears, we leave the parking lot headed for the climbing. I’m more than just a little skeptical—there is no way this brown dripping rock will be icy any time soon. Rules are rules here in Scotland and I don’t see any way we’ll be climbing today. Simon is far more inspired and hopeful than I, as we hike up in the disorienting mist. “The temperatures might be freezing up higher,” he proclaims, desperate to show me the beauty of Scottish winter climbing. Simon’s 30-plus years of Scottish winter climbing and his adventurous mind keep him ever-buzzing with excitement. I squint up towards the higher elevations, hoping for snow, hoping for the rules, the ethics, to be fulfilled, hoping that the long walk from the parking lot isn’t going to be in vain. We battle the winds and the sideways gropel until, just as Simon had forecasted, the rain begins freezing, the rock begins turning white. The wet snow lashes my cheeks, gusts of wind batter me right and left. The flakes continue to get wetter and larger, but ultimately they are freezing. At the base of the gully a gaping moat has formed below Grade 3 ice that is pissing with water. In any other place I would have headed home immediately. I look at Simon flaking out the rope for a belay and chortle: “Your lead. I had my vertical snow lead yesterday.” As Simon gets ready I change into my second pair of gloves; my first pair are already soaked through. Normally I take two pairs of gloves with me, but heeding my friends’ warnings, I’ve brought with three. Simon pulls out seven pairs from his pack. You never know, he says, sometimes you need one for each pitch, one for the approach, and a last pair for the descent. Simon, seasoned as any in the art of Scottish suffer climbing, laughs as he wades through his vertical snow lead. I look at the long ice screws hanging from my gear loops, knowing there is no way these will be useful today. Simon disappears around the corner and a short while later the rope comes tight. I climb up to Simon’s belay, finding small vertical steps, torquing my tools and burying the picks in recently frozen turf. I am entranced by the hoar on the rock; I can almost see it growing. A little window of understanding is beginning to open. Meeting Simon at the belay, I take the half dozen pins and Hexentrics and head around a blind corner fumbling the icy rock with my hands. “Use your tools!” Simon encourages. “Swing into the turf!” I reach around the corner, hook my pick blindly in a crack and swing my other tool securely into glorified frozen mud, trust it and pull my body around the buttress into a ramping ice choked corner with fun mixed steps. Two more meandering rope lengths and we are on the summit in a total whiteout. A wave of excitement flows: Scottish climbing takes much more than technical strength; the gear was challenging to find and place. The climbing was bold, tenuous, psychological—and stellar. I am beginning to understand the rules, why it all has to be frozen, where the lore comes from. I’m already looking forward to Simon’s Plan B for tomorrow, and hoping the rock stays white. “That’s a new route,” Simon says with a smile. “What shall we call it?” I ask while changing into my last pair of dry gloves. No question, really: The Alpine Princess. " http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/blog/index/view/slug/the-alpine-princess-zoe-hart-learns-the-rules-of-mixed-climbing-in-scotland

In that respect I wouldn't suspect the new Fusion to be much better than the Nomic with either version of hammer head (i have both). Monty is right, carry a third tool and do it right. That is said having pounded/cleaned a peg or two with a Nomic as it comes from the factory, sans hammer. A alpine hammer made to pound pegs with will be faster, easier and offer more reliable pegs...even better pegs as the placement position gets more desperate. My take on it anyway. Hammer isn't the answer on that tool (Nomics) as the balance is off enough you'll notice and more importantly the radical curve of the shaft makes any useful hammer less than optimum. Big attribute to the Nomic is it's light weight and exceptional balance. Now having a useful spike and attachment point all in one, on the end of a tool.......and a mini hammer (that is sorta useful) without trashing the balance, that is something worth talking about

Smiling? Cold Don,...cold. Kinda cold you only experience once. Remember your first time out in -40 temps and realising you could actually die in such temps? After a few years of skiing and climbing this is my first realization of just how cold it can really get. I'd almost forgot the King Eddy and dbls! Translate? All you needed was a rope and a few biners..with the fixed anchors. Thought occured to me the other night that it was just like "sport climbing"

I mentioned that last year...to much distain and may be well deserved distain at that But gonna happen at some point in the near future anyway I suspect. Been looking at the topography of that section of the mtn and there seems no real easy answer where to put it that the rap line would get the traffic the effort to establish a good set of anchors all the way down would require. It is a big complex face.

Hey Will, nice jacket! Never seen one but the sticker shock would have kept me away I'll have to make a point of seeing it in person. Thought this might help since we are posting in both C and F. -20C = -5 F -30C = -25 F I agree the MH Compressor Hoody and the WT Belay Jacket are apples and oranges. In the temp range mentioned I found one jacket very useful while I found the other jacket not very useful for my own pursuits. That is the problem with specific recogmendations...everyone is different and what YOU require of a garment may be totally different than what someone else requires. Although I think the bigger problem is the label, "belay jacket". "Belay sweater", "belay jacket" and "bivy jacket" I think are better descriptions. Assume all must have a hood that fits over a climbing helmet, all have a wind proof shell and some sort of insulation. Few things I would call a "belay sweater". Atom Lt the first I've really seen. Belay jacket on the other hand lots of folks make in synthetic and down. Think of a jacket you'd be willing to climb hard technical ground in but not really warm enough spend a -25 (/F) night out in. And a reasonably small stuffed package in the pack. Recently a number of manufactures have offered such jackets. Bivy jacket you can climb in when things get really cold but not the most pleasant garment to do so....you really wish for something lighter. Makes a cold night out bearable but is about the size of a stuffed sleeping bag in your pack. Something you have often wondered about...should I take the jacket or lwt sleeping bag...which is a better option to carry? These have been around a long time...and when stripped of extra features are now generally called "belay" jackets. The last is a garment I have owned since I started climbing but also one I have seldom used.

My 2 cents...is turn of the century is possible, Oldest axe posted in this thread so far. Head shape and size tell you that. $200 was a fair price.

"Our second bivy on Mount Alberta (not planned) was a simple matter of just passing the time until it was light enough to see where we were going again. There was no comfort other than the knowledge that we were out of harm’s way for the time being. I lay prone, alternating between shivering and doing isometrics to stave off succumbing to hypothermia. I tried to doze off from time to time as I was genuinely exhausted from the physical exertion, the lack of sleep, the mental anxiety, the BITTER cold, the monster approach, from Mount Alberta." I you haven't seen this it is worth the read..... http://alpinestyle.blog.com/

And we all thought it was the French? French just had the good sense to take it to rock and do it in warm weather! Hey, their national sport is hockey. Vertical hockey isn't a stretch for the cold Canadian winters and some bored expats. Fixed anchors if you could find them and generally no pro between them that was usable. Outside of Yosemite slabs it was the only time I'd seen that at the time. And none of us had ever heard of "sport" climbing. Dec 1972, top of Cascade as the sun went down....temp in Banff that day? -40C. Made for a cold walk down Rogans.

JBo....couple of things jump out at me in your querstion. Sorry the answer turned out way longer than I expected I obviously reallllyyy need to get out more! No I don't normally add anything to my legs.....but have thought about it for some really cold climbs. Just never done it, even in Alaska. I know a few guys with way more experience that do use them on a regular basis though. First thought that jumped out at me was the lack of a hood. You know this I am sure but worth repeating for those that haven't heard it. Major difference in the amount of heat a jacket with a hood will retain for you. Way more than you might rightly expect. Now that suitable garments are available everything I wear past my lwt weight first layer against the skin has a hood. In really cold weather I might have 3 layers of hoods in and out of my helmet. I like the hoods out so I can pull them on and off. That is three layers before I get to the Compressor hood. On approaches I use a different top layer system than what I climb in. I strip to the skin and relayer in dry gear when i pull out my harness. Leg layers and top layers are dependent on the temps and work load. Although been awhile since I used a hard shell outer on my legs or top. The colder it gets the more I wear bib style layers on the bottom. Eliminating gaps and belts that both cut off heat and allow you to wear less with similiar heat retention. Belted pants work fine in mild to chilly weather. When it gets really cold I go to one or two layers of bib style pants....inner liner of stretch fleece and heavier soft shell outer and regular long johns as well. I use to be a big fan of Goretex one piece suits because you could wear less insulation for a similar amount of heat retention over a two piece shell system. That has gone by the way side with the huge advantages during movement and breathability of soft shell gear. The gig is the most amount of warmth for the least amount of clothing, while staying dry and mobile right? I don't like being specific in what works for me because it is specific only for me, that particular day, in those temps, on that articular climb. But here is ONE list of how I have used the Compressor Hoody in fairly cold conditions a number of times. Icefield's winter, say -20C to -30C at the bottom end, which is about as cold as I'd want to go with this system using a Compressor Hoody as a belay jacket. Duofold short sleeved T shirt (or) smart wool long sleeved T- neck. I decide which by how cold it is going to be (wind/sun/cloud cover) and how fast I plan on moving as the t shirt drys faster but the T-neck is warmer if I can keep it dry. Patagonia Rashguard hoody Patagoinia R1 hoody Arcterxy Gamma MX Hoody Compressor Hoody FWIW on the right climb my plan is to replace the Gamma MX with the Atom Lt...and if everything was perfect I might replace both the Gamma MX and the Compressor with the Atom Lt and plan to keep moving to stay warm enough. But at the moment that is all speculation on my part. What works well for me may not work for you at all.]/b] Just trying to get others thinking of options and different combinations that might work well for you. Pictures can tell me more generally. Here are four different combos from last winter trying to match the conditons and climbs effectively. Two sets of pictures from 2 totally different climatic zones. 2 are in the Cascasdes and 2 are from the Rockies. I'll let you guess which. You can see how cold I was just by how many layers are inside my helmet and how I use that little nuance to effectively control my own body temp. Lower layers (legs) don't offer quite as many options generally and are harder to add and subtract. Hopefully this will give you some different ideas. Patagonai Micro Puff pullover, pile hooded pull over, R1 hoodie...plus lwt layer under the R1 This was a cold one..merino wool t-neck 1st layer, stretch hoodie mid weight pile jacket, Gamma MX, Compressor and a hat! We started this one in warmer conditions. 1st layer was a Doufold T shirt, then a R1 and the Gamma MX. We climbed much of the later part of the day in a wet snow storm so I ended up climbing a lot that day with the Compressor Hoodie over all this. Compressor was totally soaked through by the end of the climb but I stayed warm and by the time we were 1/2 way down the jacket had dried out. Compressor jacket impressed the shit out of me on that one! Cold, dry and in the shade here. Doufold T shirt, Rash Hoodie, R1 Hoodie and the awesome Gamma MX. Perfect combo for the temp and how hard the climbing was. Glad we were down by the time the sun set as I left the Compressor at the base for this one. Smart move if you pull it off...really dumb (and painful) if you don't. Thought you guys might get a laugh from a little historical perspective, pre-helmet days Dec 1972, top of Cascade as the sun went down....temp in Banff that day? -40C. Wool top to bottom, single leather boots, supergaiters, a down vest and a bit chilly walking down Rogan's.

Just so we don't get stuck in the time warp a few comments from my perspective. No reason to ever run out an ice climb these days. New screws go in as fast as a cam on rock and can be just as secure. Risking even a small fall on ice and serious injury doesn't seem like a smart way to climb. Useing an umbilical on leashless tools will reduce that risk even further. Using leashless tools not only keep your hands warmer but have killed heavy mitts for anything but really cold moderate routes where a ski pole or straight shafted tool might do just fine. Or on really cold belays as a spare. Heat packs might just solve the issue better though. Leashless done correctly will also reduce the pump not increase it. The modern tool picks generally don't (brand dependant imo) need to be tuned when new and will out last the last generation several times over. A modern tools hooks so well, that hooking has replaced the need to swing a tool for most routes. I won't argue, your legs do the work.....and it really is all in your feet. Modern tools have just emphasized that fact even more so. Much of what has been done on ice can still be done with 40 year old gear designs with little struggle. Up the ante to the old test pieces or modern mixed and not so much unless you are the 1%. Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson's line on the Grand Jorasse comes to mind as does the McIntyre/Colton. Lowe and Weiss' line in the GCC is another. Still current test pieces for the aspiring alpinists and all done on what we now consider obsolete gear. Ice used to all about your "head". It isn't now. Alpine always will be. But the right gear selection will make things easier in either venue.

Hey Graham. In the almost 30 years that I was using Wild Things gear they have always done well. As the new kid on the block I suspect you realise just how hard it is to stay on the cutting edge and make any money doing it. I sure don't begrudge Marie's success and applaud Wild Things having the military contracts. Those serving our country deserve the best. For that use pretty hard to fault Wild Thngs gear and designs. Now, about that high tech dicky?

small world?......

220 MILLION US AMERICAN DOLLARS! Money talks and climbers walk. Sadly the niche players in the civilain market will always be the cutting edge. Once involved in the military feed bag hard to keep up with what it the best, fastest, lightest, coolest. Long ways from Bouchard and Stump to Arcteryx and Cilo and a host of others I have yet to hear of.

John all suited up for the GCC

If that were the case it would limit its use for me as well. I have one of the Atom LTs in XL (nice fit for a XL) and the hood fits over my large, yeller, Grivel Salamander helmet with ease. And I am a really picky bastard on the details. Belay jackets or sweaters in this case are required to have a useable hood that easily fits over your helmet and still offers good protection from the weather. Gone are the days of faux hoods. In my size and my buddie's size Large with a Petzl helmet it does. Almost like the Atom LT was actually designed to use it with climbing helmet inside the hood The Compressor Hoody by MTN hardware was.

Much of what it out (by many manufactures) imo is dated now. New outer materials, and combinations of materials, cut and better insulation and coatings have done that. I have owned a Wild Things "Belay Jacket" for the last couple of years and recently sold it. From the Wild Things web site: http://www.wildthingsgear.com/shop/ "Our Belay Jacket combines the lightweight warmth of Primaloft® insulation with a weather-beating EPIC by Nextec® shell to create a windproof, breathable, water resistant and packable jacket." 34oz It certainly is more than a Compressor Hoody. But certainly not twice as warm or a good comparison when you look at the difference in weight. Much more akin to the DAS in warmth, a bit heavier, and build hell for stout. Sadly, Wild Things are the past masters of "light is right".