Dane

Ambler is an awesome jacket. EB better? For me yes, but may be not for you. They were without question the two top down jackets. It is all in the details and the Mammut doesn't have to bow to any of the jackets reviewed. 1" less loft, heavier than the EB and a longer pattern cut (less technical) on the Ambler were three details that I thought the EB did better. And the Mammut colors? I really like a solid colored, red Review is pretty detailed so there is more but those were the highlights.

Only place I know to get them. My green XL is gone. My green Large is still available. They have a few sizes back in stock since last I checked, blue and black. Mine were amazon green and freaking awesome jackets! http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Norr%F8na-Lyngen-Down-Jacket-Mens/NRA0141M.html Baruntses also came from Backcountry.com as did most of jackets. http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/La-Sportiva-Baruntse-Mountaineering-Boot-Mens/LSP0136M.html Hey believe it or not I'll not make a penny on a sale. Return shipping is free and I get a full refund...just thought if anyone was looking and needed a size I had them and no tax and you could pick them up instead of me shipping them back. Either way they will all be gone on Monday.

That and a whole lot more...

More here and much more to come http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/937529/Belay_jacket_review_part_1#Post937529 here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

You wouldn't if you understood the limitations of down and DWR. In the case of a down jacket DWR is a better answer than Event. "DWR, What is it? And how does it work? DWR is a fabric treatment. DWR stands for Durable, Water, Resistant. This durable water resistant treatment coats the fibers of the fabric with a hydrophobic finish, that causes water to bead up and roll off of the fabric. The DWR treatment does not close off the tiny openings between the fibers of the fabric, in turn keeping the fabric breathable. What this does in tents and clothing, is keep the water out, while allowing condensation to escape. How this all plays out in the real world: The DWR treatment does have its limitations. While under about 90% humidity conditions it will either negate or severely reduce condensation, once you hit dew point (dependant on humidity and temperature conditions) it won't matter what the fabric is treated/laminated with you will have condensation. When it comes to rain, there is a "breaking point" for what can be held back. The fabric can be overwhelmed with heavy and prolonged rains, This can be exacerbated by heavy winds that can force water through under extreme conditions. This can lead to water dripping on you through the fabric of a DNR tent wall. So if you want a shelter/clothing to shield you from winds and moderate precipitation, and want something that doesnt have ever present condensation issues, IE dripping on you when its nice outside, then DWR is the choice for you. DWR also excells in winter conditions. Think of it like lite weight breathable rain gear, it works under moderate conditions, without getting you all sweaty."

Ok, the ultimate spoiler here. Price no object the best heavy weight/bivy coats for my personal use? The BIG winners! Down...far and away the best of the bunch, at any price, Eddie Bauer XV Synthetic...again a clear winner...MEC Tango (i'd love one in yellow) Patagonia only wishes they understood let alone could build this nice of belay jacket. Hi-tech? The Narrona is amazing..combo of down and Primaloft (just wish I could justify buying one) The BIG loosers? To my huge surprise...Feathered Friends and Patagonia. The only jackets out of this bunch I would not care to own. Funny that, because when I started the review research I thought both manufactures would be the best of the bunch. I wasn't even remotely close on that guess. Details soon at http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

I'll have shipped them all back by Monday for refunds if I don't get any interest 2/8/10 http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

I have last years, yellow/active. I've ditched the Grivel bales on both my Grivel crampons and use the Petzl bale on my BDs as well for the smaller boots. But the stainless Petzl's work harden, and have been known to break after long service life. So if you climb a lot I'd change them every couple of seasons. They really need a DIN boot sole and toe/heel profile. Otherwise boot/'pon fit is going to get worse before it gets better. Gotta love the set up though http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2009/03/les-grandes-jorasses.html http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

I'm in a 45 so it may not help. But after changing out the funcky Grivel front bales to Petzl bales they fit my Batura and Evos fine with no gap on the front of the boot/'pon interface.

All mens XL jackets (except for the FF Hooded Helious which is a unisex XXL) with a T shirt under them. On a good day I am 6'1" and 205#. Mtn H Compressor $190 retail Primaloft Eco ('09/'10) new Patagonia DAS $300 retail Primaloft 1 Eddie Bauer XV $269 retail 850+ down Feathered Friends Front Point $429 retail Event 850+ down Norrona Lyngen $379. retail 750 down/ Primaloft hybred Feathered Friends Helious $275 retail Epic and 850 down Mammut Ambler $300 retail 800 down Arcteryx Dually $500 retail synthetic MEC Tango Belay jacket retail $275 CD ($260 US$ today) Primaloft 1 I have personal best selections in 3 catagories...any one want to hear them before the full info is published at the blog? http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

My impression was Sun-Ice wanted some exposure...and they did well for the climbers and themselves. http://www.sunice.com/

http://www.climbwithus.com/#/gear-up With a little more reading on the web site seems like the Zero-Loft Aerogel insulation focus is simple hocus pocus. Bait and switch. The clothing system Jamie is actually using is Champion's/Duofold version of every other climbing suit many of us use now and anyone can buy off the shelf. The flip side is there have been some amazing advances in insulation. Primaloft being one of them that has a extremely high Clo value. Beyond what its thickness would indicate. Pumori base camp aint Everest mind you. Nice gig if you can get it though. Abbott is the R&D behind the project. He leaves a lot between the lines here. "Pearson: How did the summit suit work? Abbott: As you can imagine, the summit suit and its warmth without bulk functionality is still a work in progress. We are very far along with it, and it will be the most technologically advanced and challenging piece of apparel gear we develop. We learned quite a bit on Pumori, and we will continue to test new refinements in the Canadian Rockies this winter. We had some technical difficulties (Drew caught it..doesn't breath) with it at altitude, which is exactly why we wanted to field test it in the Himalaya. Abbott: Gearwise, it was the importance of staying dry. You’re going to sweat and having the right gear to keep your base layer dry (again doesn't breath) is absolutely paramount. You can insulate all you want, but if you’re wet, you’re miserable. I also learned that you’re never comfortable and nothing is easy." Drew already got the major issue, it doesn't breath. Does it compact? 4x better than down? ..water bottle insulator...a sleeping pad...insoles (all already available) and now a "super suit". It's possible but a huge leap imo. Won't be the first NASA technology used in climbing clothing that flamed, sputtered and died. Ever heard of "Francital". Similar idea from 30 years ago. "The aerogel layer is the primary insulating material and is sandwiched within three other layers that provide wicking, reflection of body heat and wind resistance. They say it is four times as warm as down." Almost exactly what Francital said back then...and almost true except it didn't breath either. It was good enough that it bacame the unofficial canadian guide's winter climbing/heli ski jacket. Zero-Loft Aerogel obviously has some potential. Be interesting to see if "we" can really afford (in several ways) the results. What I see that is true is an amazingly good pr stunt to this point.

"A very european style route which climbs a steep crack line for 15 metres on trad gear, before a delicate swing on to a slender stalactite leads to the top. It’s generally considered pumpy scot 7ish to 30 metres of WI5+ish. Difficulty aside it’s an awesome route with an airy feel." Just thought it was a good stoke pic. http://www.alpineexposures.com

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Having both jackets here I have to call bs on all the temp comparison and the craftsmanship of FF. FF makes great bags. Incorportaing bag technology into a jacket wasn't the best transition imo. More details on that in the upcoming cold thistle blog review. Warmth? The EB has a full 1" + more loft when compared side by side. Hood/pattern cut? Both jackets being designed for similar use it should be fairly obvious which offers more warmth and protection. Eddie Bauer XV $269 retail 850+ down Feathered Friends Front Point $429 retail a 850+ down

well done..thanks for the TR!

This thing is building...no one told FR that winter is over. 4 today and it may hit a 3 before it falls down in March. Someone is bound to ski it sooner or later Great day out in the sun with Wayne and Josh. Thanks the boot pack guys!

I was betting on an hr and a tiny bit of change..... But just for fun seems like 2 and change is reasonable Simply amazing.

Awesome TR guys! Way to get out and get some. Welcome to winter alpinism Good summits are few and far between and damn hard to get up generally.

Thought this worth a bump two years on from the original post. Not much has changed since the original post. But a few things can be better definded now. Be fun to readdress each issue of the original post after a few weeks out again up north.

For once we agree..so I did a little editing myself.

MEC makes some outstanding gear. Haven't seen the $62 piece and it may compare well to the R1 which retails for the silly price of $150!!! Even at the typical $90 on line sale price the R1 is no steal. But I do like the style of pull over. MEC hoody is a must see. Thanks for the link Drew.

Starved

Thanks for looking in Bill. The blog review was on the Patagonia "Sun Hoody" which costs $65 retail. It is the little brother of the R1. The R1 hoody was mentioned in passing as another good piece of gear

I kinda chuckled at the grade. But Will is straight up, how the line got done and he pulls as hard as anyone. Nice effort! http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010/01/spray-on.html Love Will's comment, "Really steep routes do require more bolts low, but I did a couple of aid moves between every bolt--I put one in when I started to really worry about decking, and that's as bold as I'm going to get." The guy climbs...and seldom/never sprays.