Dane

Thanks for jumping back in Mark. Hard to imagine for most folks where you guys have been climbing wise. But awesome to get a personal insight and easy to adapt some of it to any alpine climb, at any level, if you look at the details you guys have been offering. How about a detailed run down of what you and Colin wore for clothes on the Denali Diamond? And what you used on the Moonflower if you have time?

No story, just wanted to get the beta from the guys on the route before us. Here is the V thread. Verts aren't all that common typically and just wondered who it was.

You know...argueing with Colin's success rate and his choice of gear is like pissing in the wind as far as I am concerned. I suspect Colin knows more about every decision he makes climbing and with gear than most climbers know about the most informed decision they make. Colin's presentation was for the Mountaineers. To his credit he didn't dumbie down what he had to say for the audience. Most everything he said wouldn't fly in any mountainering school or guided program. It doesn't have to. Using a 5mm tag line and 8mm 1/2 rope when required for his main rope for instance. Or cooking inside a tent with any stove let alone the Reactor. What obviously works for Colin and his partners may well get YOU or me killed in short order. The info I posted is for educational purposes only so you get a glimpse into what it takes to get up the kinds of climbs Colin, Mark and their partners get done year in and year out, year after year. While we might disagree with some of Colin's choices or decisions I understand (or think i do) the context under which he makes those choices.

I don't know Colin but my gut feeling from our conversations was he doesn't think he is dreaming big at all. But there is no question in my mind that he looks at the sport differently from almost everyone else. I just think he doesn't see/have the limitations most of us do. He gives credit to the majority of his climbing ability as simply starting in the Cascades. When asked I found it interesting his reply was, "most guys my age started sport climbing and get into mountains. I started on and like the mountains and am just now getting into sport climbing"...15 years into his climbing carrer.

When quizzed on that Colin said the trick was to keep the tent vents/doors open And always sit up in the tent while the stove was on. He went on to tell us about using on in a 3 man bivy sack on the Torre travese and wondering why the stove was failing until they opened the bag to get more snow and the stove flared back to life from the rush of fresh oxygen. No question to everyone some CO2 poisoning happening there. Another good one was his partner Jeb Brown brewing up with a Reactor inside his sleeping bag on an open bivy on Moffit.

A good man. Although we wondered when he was 10 days late picking us up on Deborah We were loaded to start the walk to the highway the next morning when Cliff and Doug popped over the ridge in the 185s. Doug Geeting was working for Cliff that summer and over hsot and flipped a 185 in the mud at the end of the run way right after we arrived. Nice first impression of bush flying in Alaska Jay was a kid then and not even flying commercially yet. As SS said...end of and era with both Hudson's and Sheldon now gone.

My apologies but I missed a section of my notes.. Gerber-Sink is a better route than Triple Couliors There is no suicide pact-no pro means no rope climb snowed up rock you learn more than on fat ice He uses 13cm and 19cm scews..13s in good ice will hold the same as a 22cm uses a lot of pins

Anyone here leave a vertical V thread made of 6 or 7mm cord, blue on blue, tied with an over hand? This is the terrain and the V thread is about 30m off the deck at the base of some steep ice on the left. If so would you send my a PM? Thanks

Like Will and Bob are normal Ya, right!

Had you in mind Mark when I asked Colin about gloves;) Wish I had you around to quizz as well. Seriously, you should write out something similar with your own suggestions. We'd all benefit. I have a list I'd love to see answered by you. I'd be hard pressed to get up Chair with just one pair of gloves. I like the challenge though to expand my own comfort level, Twight did the same to me. Colin has gone farther imo, as is required of each new generation. No spare gloves or picks is a good example. But they did take two pair of gloves each on Hunter. Obviously Colin has his string tied tight. But he and guys like you are out there a long ways on the big routes. I've benefited from your insights as well as from Colin, Twight, House and others. All you guys have done some amazing climbs...good on ya!

duplicate.. sorry

Two hrs per pitch on Curtain Call this year as I remember Grant And you said...what? "easy WI5?" Oh, and remind me which ankle did you brake on that lead last year? Will said an hour.....as did Rog for WI6 or at least 30 min plus. Me? hell, I never climb WI6! Too scary. I want my ice, fat, thick, just a tiny bit wet and very picked out thanks!

DAS? or a synthetic...exactly... no moisture issues with the newest Primaloft DAS or the older synthetics. Also my take though not mentioned by Colin....tear a hole in a synthetic and no big deal..you don't loose much...down it is a disaster till you tape it up. Another Patagonia sponsored climber, Kelly Cordes, mentions that issue as well in his blog discussion of belay jackets. Worth the read. Hard shell tops on the jackets, at least for Hunter. I was asking specific questions on just those two climbs. Take a look at his blog and see what else he is using and where. Funny after a half a dozen winter seasons in soft shells I went back to a hardshell (combo really) just this winter to reduce weight, up wind protection and hopefully improve breathability. I accomplished all my goals by doing so and am extremely happy with the end results. Worth checking out Steve House's gear video on You-tube as well. Houdini shell comes to mind but both guys are sponsored by Patagonia so worth a look there to see what they offer. More here..on my use.. but big fan of the light weight, hard shell/soft shell combo idea. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/02/winter-layers.html 2nd layer: (red ones are $99 on sale right now 3/23/10) "Eddie Bauer Front Point jacket..it is a combo hard shell and soft shell . Very water resistant (my top was dry in a soaking waterfall that went straight through my pants and filled my boots to the brim) and very breathable. I am highly impressed with the details of this garment and the combo of materials used. A surprising and almost immediate favorite for cold technical climbing."

Colin Haley was in town on Sunday doing a presentation for the Mountaineers. Colin and the Mountaineers were gracious enough to allow me to invite myself. Colin did a great presentation on winter climbing. Equally as good was he answered questions through out his presentation and stayed long afterwards taking questions from the audience. I took written notes, learned a few things (no surprise) and hope that I am relaying what Colin said and not just what I heard...but as always, "caveat emptor!" Colin's climbing resume' will detail where he came up with the opinions. In no particular order. What is listed below is just how it came out of the conversation last night. I intentionally duplicated my "short hand" notes here. Adding anything now is just going to be me adding my own commentary which I did not want to do. Call it, 2 hrs of "Colin distilled" Hope you find something useful! "The Cascades Can have some of the best "winter" climbing in the world...certainly better than Colorado Always take a good foam pad... Always take a tent even solo (Bibler, ID or First Light from comments and his pictures) Always cook inside your tent Always use a cartridge stove Warm weather use a Jet Boil Cold weather use a MSR Reactor No need for a heat exchanger because he cooks inside his tent on a foam pad. Don't be afraid of taking jumars on winter routes, it might be faster overall. Lots of rope options to choose from in winter. Use what is best for your project : single single and a tat twins a dbl and a tat Skinny rap rings can be a good thing to carry and use on occasion. April and May are the best alpine "ice" months in the Cascades. Alaska climbing in winter is really cold Climbing in the "real" winter season is tough Climb at night, it is character building Learn how to dig through cornices...it is character building Carry 2 ice screws for winter routes in the Cascades...might as well take titanium, they are lighter and you'll never use them anyway Cascade approaches that are complicated (aren't they all) might get snowshoes, a mtn bike and feet Simple approaches get skis Alpinists need to know how to downhill ski...well. Big advocate of approach skis...100cm to 160cm Water is carried in MSR bladders, up to 3 liters He doesn't mind intentionally getting dehydrated if it will get him to a brew stop earlier His hardest mixed line in the Cascades is "Intravenous" If you are plunging curved tools in snow for support always face the tool picks up hill Climbing clothing on two, back to back, ascents of the north face of Hunter. long john bottoms pile lined soft shell pants..no zips wool first layer on top R1 layer hard shell belay jacket...a synthetic Puff pants with zippers Boots on Hunter were Spantik, which Colin REALLY likes for various reasons. Laces and how they climb technical ground being the two he mentioned specifically. (I tried to turn him on the the Baruntse but he wasn't having any of it He is sponsored by Patagonia, Black Diamond and Sportiva among others so easy enough to figure out what he is wearing. Crampons...always dual points..the advantage of support and not working all the time to be stable as you would on a mono point. Vertical front points for "hard" as in physically hard ice, like concrete hard, not technically hard like WI7. Horizontal front points most every where else. He likes the Euro death knot, raps a lot on mixed sized ropes and has seen the tests on them all. Favorite glove at the moment is the BD Punisher, doesn't generally remove his gloves for climbing, doesn't like to carry a spare set of gloves, but will carry one extra pair on occasion, doesn't use hard warmers Down bags are good for a two bivy climb... past that go synthetic Belay jackets he suggests being "conservative", his word not mine, and uses synthetic... the DAS of course. Meals are freeze dried on long climbs for weight and nutrition. Mtn House got the endorsement for easiest on your digestive system. Gu and energy bars on the other climbs up to a 48 hrs push. Sit up in the tent while cooking with a stove inside...limits the chance of carbon dioxide poisoning by being lower in the tent, like laying down would. Snow pickets have a limited use in steep snow...and he has climbed a LOT of steep snow. Pickets probably are best used buried as a deadman. Best belay on steep snow is a deep seated belay, set up directionally" Well worth the effort if you get a chance to see one of Colin's presentations.

Couple of things that stick in my mind. Things Will Gadd and Roger Strong have both repeated in writing or in person at different times. Falling on ice? See the bottom section of #4. But never a good thing and generally always a lack of judgement involved not a lack of climbing skill imo. See Gadd's comments in my highlighted secton of #5 on judgement. Two of the basics I try to adhere to and a small part of some of the best written commentary on ice climbing I have seen posted below. All originally posted on Will's Blog. from Gadd's blog recently http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010_03_14_archive.html 4. How often to put in ice screws? As often as you need to, but always have enough solid gear in to keep you from either hitting the ground or a ledge feature that will operate as the ground. If I feel strong and secure I'll run it hard on steep terrain. But if gets ledgy and messy I'll always put in a screw just before pulling over a bulge above a ledge... It's all about the situation you find yourself in, or rather, knowingly climbed into 'cause you were reading the route above you and had an idea for the line developed on the approach. I have seen way too many horrible broken ankles, legs and other carnage from people falling off on ice, even while being lowered on ice and dropping a few feet onto a ledge. Crampons and falling just do not mix; sometimes you'll have good luck and it will all be OK, but personally I try to climb like any fall will result in a compound fracture of both legs. It's worked for 25 years. 5. If you can't lead most any ice pitch you encounter in under about 30 minutes and any ice pitch you encounter in under an hour then you're climbing over your head and shouldn't be there. Go back and learn how to climb better, or choose an easier line. I mean this. Alpine pitches are a bit different, but most pure ice pitches should take under half an hour to lead. If they're taking more than this you're either trying to climb up to the level of your ego (the pitch is too hard even if you think you should be able to do it), you're trying to impress someone else (same), or you've screwed up and are trying to get it done (it happens, I was there a month ago). Realize that you're pushing things, your partner is going to get cold and not be having any fun, and that you don't have a safety margin anymore. Ice climbing is fundamentally not about technical ability but balancing ability and ambition; I'm a lot more impressed with someone who can lead a "grade 4" smoothly and well than some joker who sketches up a "grade 6, dude!" then boasts about it in the bar. If I sound a bit sarcastic and maybe a little aggro here it's because I've seen far too many leaders on terrain far too hard for them over the years. I've left climbing areas rather than watch someone sketch their way up something. Compound fractures are messy, I don't want to watch. "If you can't lead most any ice pitch you encounter in under about 30 minutes and -any- ice pitch you encounter in under an hour then you're climbing over your head and shouldn't be there." And let me add to the above comment..."and then follow them in less than HALF that time". If you can't then you should probably go find something you can actually climb. Roger Strong sez: "My rule of thumb is... If it takes me more than 20 minutes for any ice pitch, it’s probably harder than grade 5."

For those interested here are some thoughts on the Norrøna. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/03/design-triumphsthe-norrna-lyngen-down.html

You guys ROCK!

Kevin sez: "its finding that thin line between not overstuffed on the approach and not having it be too baggy during the climb." Agreed. I hate looking like a rambling, alpine gypsy with all my shit hanging on the back of my pack for a approach and a empty pack on the climb. Hard to avoid some times but I am trying to do better. Size and fit? A 20.5" back is going to limit you on a couple of the sacks recommended. I find the "long shoulder strap" answer unusable. One of the reasons I went to a custom sac. All my current sacs but one, has a removeable lid. And the ones I can I generally remove for most things. Decided to just have a couple of packs made up with a draw string extention closure and no lid. Gotta make the price a good deal less if nothing else

The Ion is an awesome pack! I gave mine away before using it much as I wasn't thrilled with the zipper top. But wouldn't have it I 'd known they were no longer avaialable. Was thinking of having Randy @ CCW make up something combining the best of the Flash, my current packs and the Ion in the dyneema ripstop or Spectra ripstop. But filled up the Flash last night with my kit for a local climb I didn't get on over the weekend. Suspect it is fragile...but what isn't at 10oz? But seems to work fine in the gear room! Fit is important even in small sacks for me. One of the reasons the Ion was so good, as it came in actual sizes and you could get a decent fit. Having done some serious thinking (seriously ) on this of late..I came up with the idea the pack might be too big for your/my use. One of the reasons I am looking at a 20L climbing sac.

Arcteryx Cierzo is really worth looking at as well for $90 @ 35 to 40L and 20oz. http://www.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?Mens/Packs/Cierzo-35 One I found today that I really like as well but tiny and even more simple that the others we are talking about was $30. Of all things, the REI Flash 18L @ 10oz. If it is a size you can use it should be a great climbing sac for leading. And it even fits me! http://www.rei.com/product/778466?cm_mmc=cse_bizrate-_-datafeed-_-product-_-778466&mr:referralID=744f85b5-34b1-11df-8214-000423bb4e95

Nice combo Wayno...glad the ice is holding! Not get back to work Hey that looks like a way fat traverse off the ledge and it's no where near 47 pitches up Good effort!

After doing my own search for something similar having already tried the CCW and WTs Guide size packs and finding both lacking for my own use. I ended up with custom...now semi production CCW. And really like the end results and even the price @ bewteen $120 to $140. depending on the options you order. Worth a phone call to check it out. Arcteryx has a couple of models worth looking at as well.

Been selling both Petzl hammers/ and pick mods and BD picks most of the winter. All it takes to get them on the way is an email and pay pal 4mm is rated to 900#. I took a full length fall onto my BD tethers this winter. My first. By full length I mean tool below chest level and that tool catching me at full extension on the other umbilical. As close as I want to get to a 6 or 7 foot, factor 1 fall. I am no fly weight so the load was pretty high I suspect. Not a tether yet made that will hold a true factor 1 Fall let alone a 2. But people have already been asking for them. You'll want to rely on good gear and a rated climbing rope for that with a 8 or 9' fall possible on umbilicals/tethers. Mine you the other tool was placed higher and ripped through the slush causing the fall. The tool that caught me also ripped through a good 12" or more of bad ice before finally catching the fall. Ripping through the ice worked as a natural "screamer" absorbing energy and the fall did "blow" the 4mm enough to easily see it needed to be changed out. But no core showing yet From an earlier BD email exchange this winter when I asked about the issue of the small BD biner (worried about the sharp edged proto types that I was using. The new Production stuff has much better and rounded edges) on 4 and 5mm cord laced to Nomics with a BD Spinner umbilical. Black Diamond said: "Just tested this to 800lbs (single leg). No damage to the 4mm cord or our steel clip (production quality with more tumbling to the part); the bungee webbing breaks first. Then pull tested our steel biner clipped to 5mm cord, this went to 1600lbs before the cord broke." Not like I want to use 4mm! I would also make sure to use a knot like a dbl Fisherman's in drop form instead of an Over Hand which is typical and much weaker (30% less or more?) in this application. And something like half of the original tensile strength of the rope! Easy bet the cord broke at the knot no matter what knot he was using. But worth hedging your bets here for several reasons. But 4mm seems a good compromise for size (getting it under the pommel or in your hand) and strength. Hanging on a tool is not a dynamic load. Fall far enough and require static cord and webbing to take the dynamic impact load and you'll blow through 5mm or the webbing easily. I'd take PDK's warning seriously. John (bird boy) Frieh and I are poor examples to emulate on ice. Good climbers don't fall on ice. Now back to buying Cold Thistle tool parts...what do ya need More on the dbl fisherman's knot and knot strength. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_fisherman's_knot http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope.html More on fall factors http://www.southeastclimbing.com/faq/faq_fall_factor.htm#add

Shoo, good observation, right up till you actually use a hammer on a Nomic. Here is why. The radically curved tools are difficult to use a hammer (any hammer) on effectively. Add a second grip to the shaft and it is even more so. Easiest way to get an effective hammer is to extend the hammer head away from the shaft. You can make it an even more effective hammer if you add some angle to the hammer to reverse the curved shaft influence. Last winter we made and used prototypes addressing both distance from the shaft and hammer face angle. I found the Petzl design (our original designs) lacking. Most that use a Nomic will agree its advantages and how well they climb are in part its balance and light weight. I think adding a hammer (any hammer) to a Nomic defeats part of that design advantage. The Nomic will never be a good hammer, the curved shaft and dbl grip precludes using one efectively as a hammer. But a Nomic will pound an occasional pin. Once you decide that you need/want your Nomic to pound pins you have two choices, my CT hammer or with some mods or by buying a new tool that will take the new Petzl hammer. Same basic design for the interface. Petzl choose to try to maximise their hammer for hammering all the while with three different tools in mind. 3 tools means they compromised some where. In this case it was on the hammer. I think they failed to maximise the hammer design for the Nomic and Ergo. The Petzl hammer is too heavy @ 58g and because that weight is so far behind the head the balance is changed too much. The angle of the hammer face at that point isn't going to matter much in use. If you use a Nomic now it will help to to visualise the effect of pick weights @ 65g a pair. My guess is the new hammer (option only on all the new tools) will most often be used on the Quark and even there it isn't going to have the best balance as the weight is still too far back on the Quark head (actually a Nomic head on the new tools) but the less curved shaft and lack of a second grip will make the hammer easier and more effective to use. The CT hammer weights in at 34g and is as close as we can get it to the shaft head which is required to minimise the balance change...which even the CT hammer does change. But the CT hammer pounds pins fine. No complaints from the end users to date. Not a big wall hammer by any means but for the occasional pin in the alpine or on mixed it works well. The best combo answer for the hammer addition to the Nomic is to try and match pick weights to the over all head weight. A CT hammer with no pick weights works well paired with a Nomic with pick weights on pure ice. For mixed or alpine ice I use a CT Nomic hammer and no pick weights mated to a Nomic with no pick weights. Pick weights put the swing weight in front of the shaft..adding anything behind the hammer changes the swing weight for the worse. The less weight you add to the back of the tool head and the closer you keep it to the tool head/shaft the better the tool balances for climbing. Since we have to make a choice in this case I'd rather have a ice tool that climbs well than a more effective hammer. If required to hammer a lot of pins my first choice would be to bring a real hammer. I will then climb faster/better because my tools are more effective. Un-modified Nomics (with no one's hammer) on mixed and ice and a good pin hammer to more quickly place pins effectively. At that point the extra weight of a third tool is well worth the effort. Nothing is free in this game.

Both here with more: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/947662#Post947662