Dr_Flash_Amazing

Hmmm ... ask a simple question, get pilloried. Is that how it works around here? You smell of unwashed polypropylene, buster.

Don G., In Dr. Flash Amazing's (rarely) humble opinion, the reason it is more common or accepted practice to leave the draws hanging on hard routes is that fewer people climb them. If you leave your draws up on a 5.10 or whatever, you know that there are going to be a lot of people who are climbing that route, which means you probably don't know a tenth of them. This of course makes you cautious, because who knows which one of those many climbers might thief your gear? Many beginners don't yet know that hanging draws aren't free goodies. Additionally, many climbers at the 5.10 level are still sorting out things like general technique, and still want to climb more than one route in a day to get some more experience, rather than flogging one project for hours on end. If you leave your draws up on say, Kings of Rap, you can be pretty sure that 100 people aren't going to be trying it, and you'll probably meet the other folks projecting it. Thus you can be fairly sure that someone's not going to kipe your clips, since you know who they are. And secondly, many people who are projecting hard routes will just do a couple warm-ups, then while away most of the day working on one route. It often takes weeks to send something, which adds up to a lot of attempts and a lot of dinking with draws if you're removing them all the time. So it's not just a case of people who climb hard thinking they're too cool for school, it's that it typically makes less sense for a 5.10 climber to leave their draws up on a route. It seems to the Doctor that a lot of beginning climbers (or experienced climbers who don't climb hard sport routes) project this image onto those who do climb hard that the hardmen are all big-ego jerks who are only concerned with the grade of the route they're working, and whether their shoelaces match their chalk bag. But if you ever spent some time lurking around the Churning Buttress or Aggro Wall, you'd find a bunch of cool people who couldn't give a shit if you're projecting 5.6 or 5.14. In fact, with the exception of the rather loud and brash Dr. Kubiak, DFA has yet to meet a 5.hard climber who even made the Doc think they had an ego problem (and Kubiak, it turns out, is actually a nice guy--you just wouldn't guess it right off when he starts hollering at you that you're using the "gay Canadian sequence" and you've never even met the guy). Those trad climbers, on the other hand ... [ 08-06-2002, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Don't we all look better in Spandex?

Hell, no. Don't say "mall," buster. It's unbecoming and patently offensive. According to the AmazingCo., Inc. Pocket Dictionary, "sick ass" is a sports climbers' term meaning "first rate; of the highest quality (see also 'top shelf')"

Beckey, schmeckey. What about Wolfgang Gullich, you crusty goats? Hey, look! There's punk rock emoticons! Sick ass!

quote: Originally posted by iain: Probably best not to use the fuel bottles that say "MSR Fuel Bottle" too. Gee, what makes you say that?

No, no, no, no. The point of climbing is scoring enough points to prove that you're hella super way exxxtreme to the Mountain Dew max. That's what they said on the TV, anyway.

quote: I sport climb and I trad climb. I like both. but "the technical mastery of quickdraw placement"? It's either left clip or right clip. Not the same as plugging gear... Here, let the Doctor spell it out: it's S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

Ah, yes. If it's about being facetious, Dr. Flash Amazing and yourself will be getting along just fine. As long as you solemnly swear to admit that sport climbing is way rad. Aloha, Dr. Flash "Arguing is dumb. Let's all get along like on 'Barney'" Amazing

What about the big numbers? Is it still OK to spray about the big numbers? And let's not forget name-dropping and exaggerating. How the hell are you going to talk about climbing without all that?

Thanks, Erik! <---- that's PBR, of course Lambone has a good point about red- vs. pinkpointing. Those terms are fairly dated, and since the standard is to climb no-falls with the draws already up, it's generally referred to as a "send," and it's assumed that the draws were hanging there for you. So when it's time to hit the pub and spray about how rad you are, one might say that they "got," "did," "sent," "fired," or "fuckin' ass-reamed" the route.

quote: Originally posted by Don Gonthier: Lambone. If its not such a big deal, why give it a special name? Why don't you just say 'hey I lead that' or 'I fell on a that while toproping'? See, come on now, it is a big deal to you. You wish you could place the draws on lead, but ya can't, so you give it a special name to preserve your ego. Think about it. I'm sure most sport routes you climb it makes no difference, but there has to be a few that without hanging draws first you can't climb free. It dosn't matter if its only just a tiny bit easier. If you can't do it without pre placeing draws, you still can't do it. Changing the name of somthing dosen't change the thing. The thing I don't like is that while we all have a limit at which we all fall off, if a climber were to pre hang draws on a 10a he wouldn't get quite the respect that a climber prehanging draws on a 12a would get. Yet the tactics are exactly the same. Its all about ego. Lambone this is not an attack on you personally but just a random rant. Funny thing, every one of the Doctor's no-fall lead ascents (since we're delving into semantics) have taken place with draws hanging, aside from onsights. And it is common practice at Smith to see people from the Peanut to Churning Buttress "redpointing" routes with the draws already up. You see, sport climbers have moved past quibbling over which way is more cool, and simply go with the way that makes the most sense for the medium. A 5.10 climber gets no less respect for sending with the draws already hanging than a 5.12 climber, and DFA has never heard hardman sporty types badmouthing beginners for climbing this way. It's basically the accepted means by which one progresses in sport climbing, as the emphasis is on pushing ones physical limit, not the technical mastery of quickdraw placement. It's not as if having the draws in place suddenly enables you to advance a couple number grades or something. And since 99.9999% of the sport climbing world uses the draws-in-place redpoint standard, it's not as if claiming a redpoint with the draws up is somehow cheating.

quote: Originally posted by Don Gonthier: DFA aren't you a little far from home? I think you should run along home before one of the big kids steals your lunch money. Come on! quoting Alan Watts as an authority on climbing ethics. Get real. 'Oh, I got the pink point'. 'Oh, Oh, I think I'm having a redpoint'. How gay. The "big kids," huh? The Doctor should be concerned because alpine and trad climbing are so much more legitimate pursuits, is that it? Please. We'll see if you're still shit-talking sport climbers the next time you need someone to rescue your draws after another failed attempt on Gumby, hardman. Anyway, DFA was just explaining (from a sport climber's point of view--imagine that!) a common sport climbing practice, and citing an appropriately sport climbing-oriented source written by the father of American sport climbing. W/r/t DFA being "far from home," various members of cc.com keep peppering the smithrock.com message board with requests for the Doctor and other sport-minded individuals to come visit. And he wouldn't normally hang out with such a crass assortment of crusty mountain goats (a compliment, no?), but smithrock.com has been a little slow lately, so here he is.

Silly alpine/trad climbers! If you crack open your Smith Rock guidebook, (which was published in what, 1992?) and refer to the "Ethics" section, there is a blurb about means of ascent. The idea of leaving the draws hanging and calling the no-falls ascent of a thusly-prepared route a "redpoint" harkens back at least a decade, and is endorsed by none other than Alan Watts, American Sports-Climbing Hero. The concept being that with bolts already in place, the point of a sport route is to push one's physical limit without having to dink with gear. So while hanging draws adds some difficulty to it, it's far from the same amount of difficulty added by placing gear on a trad route. But the point is that this practice has been in place for years, and 99.9999% (official government survey figures) of all sport routes that are redpointed are done with the draws hanging.

On the trad side, that would have to be Outer Space, the location and enjoyability of which probably need not be explained to anyone here. But it's the longest route the usually bolt-clipping Doctor has done, and it was a kick in the ass. In the sport realm, Chain Reaction at Smith is tough to beat. Extremely fun, unusual moves, good rock, great feature, and it's not too long so you don't get pumped out of your mind. Toxic runs a not-too-close second, as the Doctor's most oft'-climbed fun route.

DFA is not going to keep his mouth shut just because of the current political climate, but thanks for the warning/info. Obviously, this "discussion" isn't going anywhere productive, so the Doc is calling this one quits. Here's to peace and open minds, Dr. Flash Amazing

The act of terrorists destroying thousands of human lives is sick, despicable, and yes, evil. DFA holds no love for the bastards that did that, so let's get that straight right now. (And, just because the Doctor hasn't studied Poli Sci does not make him stupid.) But that doesn't mean the Doctor supports blowing the fuck out of an entire country (and by the way, weren't the highjackers predominantly from other countries, i.e. Saudi Arabia? Where our oil comes from? Suppose there's any reason we're not peppering the Saudis with Bunker Busters and Daisy Cutters?) in retaliation. Independent study has put the civilian death toll in Afghanistan at over 3,000 (and counting). If you think it's OK that more innocent people have to die for this, or that it's OK that they died because they're not American, then you are sick. The other thing that pisses DFA off is that George W. "No Child Will Be Left Behind" Bush is using 9/11 and his little war to justify pissing away the national budget on defense spending (what's left of the budget after those worthless tax refunds--yeah, that 300 bucks per person did a WHOLE lot to turn the country around) while school districts across the country are having their funding cut to squat. Furthermore, the Doctor finds it rather naive to assume that a "president" who did a good deal of his campaign touring aboard an ENRON corporate jet (and is now trying to deny access to information about his and Dick Cheney's dealings with that company in the name of "national security") is not corporate-influenced. The government was created for people, not the highest bidder. If disagreeing with the government, wanting peace, and thinking the government ought to work for PEOPLE a little bit are seditionist ideals, then send the fucking FBI to the Doctor's door because his opinion must qualify as total revolt. [ 08-02-2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Let the Doctor get this straight. Are you trying to help us have a debate, or trying to prove that you are smarter than DFA? DFA was trying to point out why he thought that was a lame example of good military action, and thought he explained why. If it wasn't good enough, oh, well. The Doctor will gladly admit that he has no background in the study of political science, and has done little research into such. But he does know that he disagrees with killing people (his original point), and he knows damn well not to put all his trust in the government's side of any story. And weren't you the one begging for a little respect for being in the military? Yeah, you were. And then you got pissed when the Doc extended a hand on for that, which you rejected with some flip remark about not trying to be your friend or some such. This makes sense how?

Jeesh! Doesn't anyone sport climb around here? Alpine climbing is dangerous !

quote: Originally posted by 512dude: Debates like this on the internet are like the special olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded. Hilarious recycled bumper sticker quote. Dr. Flash Amazing is rolling in the aisles. But, dude! You climb 5.12?! All is forgiven!

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: DFA, OK smart guy let's see what you know. The Afghan situation was created by a previous generations political neccessity. Several DEA, FBI, State department heads went to Peshwar and onto Northern Afghanistan to investigate the possibility of funding the Afghan Jihad by releasing the sale of Opium (Heroin) related products into the Western World to buy guns to train and fund Muslim recruits. Many nations were involved in this and it was fully endorsed by the heads of our government during the early 80's. At the time it was perceived that the Cold War could be ended and the Soviet Union defeated using this policy. Did it achieve this end? Adamson OK, the Doctor said he was staying out of this, but this is irresistible. DFA is no historian, and is only passingly familiar with the event you refer to. However, it seems a little ironic that you'd choose to justify the use of military force with that example. First of all, there's the willing introduction of drugs into the US. Our country willingly enabled that, and then proceeded to spend the past what, 20+ years engaged in a "war on drugs?" How many American lives (aren't those the ones you care about?) have been ruined as a result of our allowing drugs into the country and then hypocritically prosecuting people for possessing, using, and distributing those same drugs? How much time and money has been wasted on that, while millions of the kids the government is supposedly so concerned for either get a totally substandard education or none at all? This is an example of the right thing to do? And then there's the issue of us training the extremist fanatics who blew up our landmarks on 9/11. We're somehow surprised that this might happen? We put the fucking tools in their hands, for God's sake. We taught them to be terrorists! Shouldn't we maybe have rounded up all those cats from the FBI et. al. for their involvement in terrorist training that led to 9/11? Dr. Flash Amazing fails to see how this is an example of good foreign policy, or even basic logic. If you could enlighten the ol' doc on that one, please do. [ 08-02-2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

quote: Shut the fuck up, asshole.Gee, did they teach you that one in the military? Formidable line of reasoning there.

Ah, well then in your case, the Doctor will never understand your point of view. His previous statement was based upon conversations with actual humans who had been in the service but were not bloodthirsty psychopaths. Enjoy your tenure as cannon fodder to further some corporate-sponsored tyrant's agenda, captain bullets. Human life is human life, regardless of whose flag is flying over the head of said life. Think about it.

Funny, DFA works with some of the "Muslim hordes" as you say. They seem like a nice bunch of folks. And don't mistake a lack of appreciation of the gov't's military policy for a lack of appreciation for the fact that you have risked or will risk being perforated by bullets in service of said government. It's understood that soldiers don't start wars, jackass politicians and fanatics do (the same politicians who perpetuate the need to wipe out "hordes" in the name of freedom or whatever). [ 08-02-2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]

Hmmm ... DFA has had his last several seasons at Smith go something like this: affix quickdraws dog, dog, dog, dog, dog whine, whine, whine, excuses excuses "Anyone got the beta for the second crux?" dog, dog, dog, dog "It's totally a linkage issue. All the moves go." dog, dog, dog, dog "This thing is too hard" brush, brush, brush hang, hang "Maybe next go." "Or the next one." SEND! Ah, the agony, adventure, and pithy drama that is sports climbing. DFA lives for such. [ 08-02-2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ]