matt_warfield

I would agree with that and it makes a lot of sense. If self defense can't be taken care of with one clip, you have serious problems. A semi-auto with multiple clips is nearly an assault peopon. I am just against using well planned and orchestrated events like this, the mall sniper, Columbine, Gabby, and etc. to rain down on responsible gun owners.

There are handguns and there are handguns. Folks have a right to defend themselves, and I think there's a way to accommodate that right w/o owning semi-automatic pistols with large volume magazine clips. Everybody retains handguns and rifles. The only difference is no more rapid fire weapons. Rapid fire weapons have no place in hunting, and you probably don't need them for self defense unless your favorite hobby is gang warfare. I couldn't agree more. But to debate guns you have to absolutely understand the differences between types of guns and especially the difference between semi-auto (one trigger pull per shell) and full-auto (one trigger pull and lots of shells). Unfortunately semi-auto can be converted to full auto in assault rifles which is why they should be banned. But banning handguns when assault rifles are doing the damage is over the top. Hunting as about one or two quick shots with a rifle and thugs and gangs and serial killers are about full auto. But in Montana we don't want the latter to prevent the former because of idealists.

You don't get out of WA much do you Tvash? Good luck with that theory in places like Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Texas, etc,etc. Of course strict punishment has worked so well with drugs, murder and rape that they've all but disappeared from this country, right? You should log in under your own avatar. You're making Ivan look like an idiot. +1 Criminals always have guns. We can pass every law we want and they still will. Drugs are illegal too but are pervasive. Don't think that the same smuggling techniques bringing heroin and coke into the country don't apply to weapons. And I saw on the news some school districts are allowing teachers to pack while in school in case this shit happens again. It is not the fiscal cliff but the views on gun control are pretty similar. But like Kirk said, I'm from rural Montana and bringing liberal views on gun control is going to get a bunch of steely eyes around here. But then they are not the ones doing mass murder.

No pics but a few stories. My first son was about 4 when I carried him to the top of a peak in a kid pack, only to find him bored and just throwing rocks around while ignoring the views. Same kid about 2 years later backpacking. He again got bored and the only way I could get him to the destination was to tell stories about Dracula, kings and queens, and castles and such. His highlight on the trip to the summit was a gopher that had been mauled by a hawk. Same kid at age 19 at Squamish. He was thrilled to finally be somewhere he could drink legally. Then he led every pitch of Diedre. Second son, age 12 on his first trip into the Lower Enchantments. He took a baseball and mitt and got obsessed with throwing the ball up a rock wall and trying to catch it on the way down until it was too dark to see. Same son, age 20, carried a watermelon into the Lower Enchantments. Same son, age 25 hiked up Pike's Peak in shorts and a t-shirt to experience a snowstorm and energy crash and bought food at the top with his memorized credit card number. Now the first son is gone and the second son has been a teacher, recycling entreprenour, Auditor for the state of Colorado, and now is a professionalpoker player. Not to date myself but now it is "To the grandfathers" for me. These are all very fond memories and like every father and grandfather think they are the smartest and cutest people on earth. It is what we do. My granddaughter is 1 and likes to climb onto the dishwasher lid and dig around in the dishes. High hopes for her.

There must be some reason why they make all those semi-autos and I can't remember ever seeing a police officer with other than a semi-auto in a holster. It is the criminals that have AK-47, Mac-10 and etc. But I respect the opinions of the thoughtful and knowledgable anti-gun side. I own a 9 mil and also have a black belt in karate and have never had to use either one in self defense, but have had several pointed at me so I am having a hard time with this argument.

Ivan, I would agree but if you believe in self defense you believe in semi-auto. Ask any law enforcement officer, none of whom use revolvers. It's not about 6 rounds, it's about cocking all the time if you have multiple threats. I just don't see the difference between a six shooter and a Glock. Let's concentrate on taking out assault rifles and machine guns. But I will agree that people need to have proper training and they often don't. Gun ownership is a responsibility along with being a right. And at the gun range you see a lot more semi-autos than revolvers, many handled expertly and safely. But I can see I'm swimming upstream on this thread so will retreat to the sanctuary of rural Montana, where gun ownership is sacred.

And dueling. And cannons. And swordfights. We are mostly civilized but that touch of violence creeps in. I forgot about walking the plank.

People, are we really going to allow the opportunity for national dialogue on this issue go by the boards? Now is the time for setting aside our partisan differences and engaging in a real debate. The MMA vs. Jackie Chan Question is just too important right now and needs to be settled once and for all if we are to move forward as a nation, as a species, really. Okay, I got off track. I'll stick with my argument that treatment of mental illness is key and gun control is a red herring. And these issues should be national dialogue. And again three clips of 10 shells equals 30 in a "large" magazine. But I would have no problem controling assault weapons. Obama is talking about this right now and NRA is going to have a press release Friday. Should be entertaining.

I have been flippant as well. But the point remains that a Glock with three clips could do all the same damage as an assault rifle so all this fuss about gun control chaps my hide. It takes 2 seconds to change clips in a handgun. I am a libtard in most areas but not in this one. The mom had no business buying three guns when the son was unhinged. Ironically, gun and ammo sales are skyrocketing cuz everybody is expecting new legislation. A little counterproductive.

Shapp, You're killing us with this tropical stuff. We're 4 days from the shortest day of the year in the PNW and you have to inflict this damage? Great pics. Any stingrays or sharks? Always a bonus. I just saw the ray pic so strike that from the record. Off, have your wife read "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich". I personally like 85 highs, 65 lows every day. Just no hurricanes.

Let's start with nukes, then go to ballistic missiles, then RPGs, then IEDs, then assault rifles, then hunting rifles, then 45s, then 9 mils, then 357s, then 38s, then shotguns, then 22s, then crossbows, then longbows, then bb guns, then let's all tie our hands behind our backs. Left or right leaning, we all draw a line somewhere but we have had violence since the beginning of time and some of it will escape all laws and security.

But it is a good chance to get exercise while experiencing reality TV in real life. However, the creative can combine a trip up the old trail with some rock climbing at Little Si and now that I think of it Little Si is a nice little hike and also E38 up to Bob's area and Mt. Washington (longer hike). Go until conditions slow you down.

I agree and I wouldn't want to do the trip with Lior (off-the-hook) I prefer to hike through women and children in sandals, huge sunglasses, walking sticks, carrying handbags, and preferably with a small dog on a leash. My favorite was a guy with a cooler in one hand and a shotgun in the other. A day on Si is a "trip".

What a bunch of crap. If that skinny-assed punk got into the school w/o a gun it would have taken about 3 of those kids to crawl all over him and take out the maggot. Yea, well Jackie Chan could have killed as many - brilliant argument. Bottom line - these shooters are cowards. A gun gives them perceived power that they can then take out whatever false retribution their tweaked minds have concocted. Guns are just way to available in our society. I am not disagreeing with you in principle and will accept your insult, but experienced MMA COULD wreak havoc if they wanted. They don't because they are generally not mentally ill. And Jackie Chan would get his ass kicked by the top MMA people.

Four hours should be enough if you are a good hiker and driver. My best was 59 minutes on the main trail TH to touch the Haystack. But I know it has been done in under 40 minutes. Driving time is a separate issue and if you're smart you don't try for time going downhill.

Discovery is the park I was talking about not Magnuson. It is a treasure. But I also agree that a gym is a good option. Combine stairmaster, rowing, treadmill, elliptical, and weights and you will not do any vertical but be very fit.

Tvash, I am mostly on the same page. Regarding this whole situation, I will still say that treatment of mental illness is essential. And when people want the right to have guns, they are rarely talking about assault weapons. Please ban those and not "normal" weapons like a 22 for gophers, 9 mil for protection or shotguns for shooting crows or a 273 to bag deer and elk or a 348 for bears that are attacking. But on the other hand, in the hands of an experienced gunperson, a glock with two clips does the same thing. I don't know what the answer is. And I will still say a mixed martial artist could have killed just as many school children in about the same time. Treat the disease.

mt si, mclellan butte, granite peak, and other close hikes are an acquired taste in winter (snow and ice). One good idea is 145th off of Lake City Way. There are a bunch of stairs down toward the lake. Hunt and peck and you will find all kinds of good hiking. Or Magnuson Park, pretty close to Ballard as well. Nice vertical down to Elliott Bay. Again, think laps. Also a nice round trip trail run along with the side trip. Very nice in winter because without the leaves you get great views. And I agree with Gene that Tiger Mtn. is a relatively snow free hike close to town. Or Columbia Tower downtown where they have an annual firefighters competition going up the stairs. Lots of stairs. Seattle has lots of hills. As you get to know the town, you will figure out other options.

I agree. Even if the story is compelling, people will still give up even on the internet if a long story doesn't read like a book. Books have been around a lot longer than the internet. And telemarker, I like your signature, but keep in mind that we men have 7 orifices so our issues are not limited to the ones you list. Women have eight.

And just to fuel the fire, witches got burned, children get shot, throw in genocide, getting cancer, the World Trade Center, and a few other issues. Being a human being is not always fun. But at least we have the Seahawks kicking ass at present. And if somebody else gives me a hard time about my son and mental illness, they should think about how insenstive is in. I'm done with this thread.

Thank you So do you take personal responsibility for the death of your son? I've managed to avoid posting this thread, until now... Probably one of the most insensitive comments I've ever seen kirkw. Sadly, not real surprising coming from you. EOM Thank you. Your response helps a lot asshole.

It is a trip. First there is the airport: greeted by a big brown right off the bat (taxidermy of course). Right off Main in Kodiak there are bear scratchings on the trees. Went hiking and practially crapped my drawers around every bend until above the shrubs. But I've heard the Kodiaks are more benevolent than mainland griz. Am I right? And how ironic that this thread transitioned from Hawaii to griz. But I also was face to face with Brutus, who was being filmed for the Kinect game series from Microsoft in Montana. Nothing like a little 900 pound piece of joy to make you feel alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder That's a great wiki link. Except autism isn't considered a personality disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism Was this guy, in your opinion, a functional and responsible adult or not? Yes or no? No! Perhaps it is my great pleasure to have been around bipolar, schizophrenic, autistic, and we'll throw in some drug stuff as well such as crack, heroine, meth, and shit like that. Then there are climbers which have their own version of insanity.

Kodiak or mainland griz? I have heard that while the Kodiaks are biggest the mainland ones are the baddest. And in the water in Hawaii it is tiger sharks that are the biggest threat. Except that I got a skin infection from the pool at the hotel that nearly cost me a trip to the hospital. But I would still rather be inspired than be scared.

Well, that's Rob's assertion, so you might ask him. please translate this for me then... Originally Posted By: matt_warfield If she had guns in a lockbox and not in the closet or under the pillow or under the couch this could have been prevented. It is a terrible tragedy but owning guns is a big responsibility. Translation: If she had guns in a lockbox and not in the closet or under the pillow or under the couch this could have been prevented.