russki82

but sereriously, Sisu...i agree it's not cool to mock veterans and those in the army now; on the other hand, is it any more right for people who will never have to fire a weapon and dodge bullets to scream for war? war is unfortunately sometimes inevitable, but it should always be the last resort...

you know, there was a Red Army song in the 1920s, during the Russian Civil War that went like this, "my mirnye lyudi, no nash bronepoezd stoit na zapasnom puti" translation (not literal, but conveying the message: "we're all for peace, but just in case we keep our guns loaded..."

Pink Floyd (best music of the 20th century) the Who some Beatles the Stones Zeppelin Aerosmith (some) Skynyrd Eagles Steve Miller KISS (some) Seger Dylan Guns N Roses Metallica (occasionally, depending on mood) Nirvana (same) Sublime russian stuff: -DDT - best Russian band ever and one of the best bands in the world -Kino -Lube -Vysotsky -Vizbor -Gorodnitsky -Kim -Okudzhava -Rosenbaum -Machina Vremeni Lube

not that I've ever been on Denali (though hopefully I will next summer), but from what I know, the upper West Rib (starting from the medical camp at 14K) is a good compromise that is on one hand a technical climb where the last 6,000 vertical feet you're on your own, but on the other hand something that is doable by us normal people too without prolonged and severe objective danger. The key here is that this way you avoid the Valley of Death entirely. The drawback of course is that you must deal with the mob on the lower West Butt...but once above the medical camp it is real mountaineering. btw ivan, are you a russki too or are you just plagiarizing our name?

without going into TOO much detail, the worst partner I ever climbed with was an Estonian...uh, well, that should just about explain it...he was the only person in the world who i've told to fuck off and never ask me to climb with again...

b-rock....

alright gentlemen... first, I reiterate and stress that I am NOT making judgment on this specific story and these specific individuals. We simply don't have enough info to make any kind of conclusions about this particular story. I'm just taking the opportunity to make a general point. I don't think that these guys deserved to get shot at any more (or any less) than I think that I deserved to get bombarded with ice and nearly killed under the Kautz ice cliff this July. In both cases, we were taking a risk; exposing ourselves to OBJECTIVE DANGER - things outside of our control. All I'm saying is that some people seem to think that somehow, there is a difference between the objective risks of getting killed in the mountains by nature and getting into trouble due to someone shooting at you. Well, I don't see any huge difference. In either case, it's OUR responsibility to watch our ass when we're out there. Excuse me for being blunt, but the idea of saying that "these Chinese soldiers weren't supposed to be there, this is not their territory" is not much different from saying, "that chunk of ice wasn't SUPPOSED to fall at that particular moment...in other words, a bit naive. Does it mean that you can't climb in Nepal, in the Caucasus, in Central Asia? Well, no, it doesn't...but it DOES mean that you're responsible for whatever happens to you...whether it be natural, or "not natural". I hope i've made myself clear enough.

anyone wanna add to this list, feel free... you spend more on climbing equipment than on all your other bills combined -your "temporary adress" is your license plate number and your "permanent adress" is Camp 4.... -you take a shower as often as others go to the dentist -you don't know what a dentist is -the words "rack" and "protection" don't have sexual connations... -you've been to all 50 states plus 20 countries, yes have never had the opportunity to visit your aunt and uncle -you spend thousands' of bucks on climbing gear yet you've been wearing the same pair of jeans, the same sneakers and the same SOCKS the past 10 years. -you've changed your underwear by turning it inside out... -your socks can stand on end -you've seen at least 5 squirrels, rabbits or other wildlife die from being to close to you after you took your shoes off. -you've never worked out in your life and live mainly on a diet of beer, ham&eggs and corned beef, yet you're in better shape than all the jocks you went to high school with -you've robbed a sporting goods store (but not taken any cash) -you lost your virginity on a bivy ledge -you couldn't go to your high school prom with the homecoming queen because you had to finish that problem... -all the relationships you've had ended because of climbing, even if your girl/boy were also climbers... -you go to Camp Four to pick up girls (or guys)...and IT WORKS. -you have an ice axe, carabiner, or something of the sort tattoed on your ass -you've attempted to start a guerilla war against the Yosemite rangers -you don't make a great distinction between the tourists/sightseers that come to Yosemite and wildlife. -The tourists think exactly the same of you

hey AK - did you get off route on the 7th pitch of the East Butt of El Cap by any chance??? We did...and it seems like we're not the only ones either...there were tons of rap slings that each party left after getting themselves up the creek. I'm talking about that pitch where it LOOKS like the line to take is straight up a chimney and then into the grassy cracks above, whereas the actual route lies further right, on top the arete. Actually our leader ended up aiding right through the off-route section and back onto the route - he described it as horrendous climbing at 5.12 level (by his estimate - he didn't risk freeing it due to large runout) with only delicate skyhook placements for quite some distance, and 40 foot fall potential... fantastic route, though...

Rod...Christ, do you think I'm a COMPLETE idiot?? I realize it was in Nepal and not Chechnya, I can read...I used Chechnya as an example, I can say Afghanistan if you like. Like I said, I was making a GENERAL STATEMENT, not neccesarily about these particular guys.

quote: Originally posted by b-rock: It's my responsibility to make sure I don't get taken hostage? Hmmmm. yes, as in, perhaps you should consider planning your climbing trip in Alaska, NOT in Chechnya...

yep...these things WILL happen when climbers venture into areas of political instability...we all remember the Kyrgyz story of course; I've heard of people in the Caucasus simply being robbed at gunpoint and having to come back from basecamp in nothing but socks. What is unfortunate is when these climbers, with by own stupidity and naiveness, put others lives' on the line and then are portrayed in the American media as big shot heros...case in point is once again the Kyrgyz story. How many people know that 35 soldiers lost their lives saving their ass? No one would, were it not for John Bouchard (God bless him...) who wrote that article about the story in Kyrgyzsan that WAS NOT published in "outdoor" magazine... not immediately putting claim on these WA guys, just making a general statement - our responsibility for ourselves in the mountains INCLUDES not getting yourself taken hostage...

arghhhhh! lucky bastards! where is this?

heh, it wouldn't hurt to get a little Communist one those queers...would teach em a good lesson.

Christ...if I wanted to see/hear about this shit, I'd take a stroll down the Fenway... well, I guess that's the annoying thing about the Web - you have all your "freedoms" to say whatever the hell you want and no one can do anything about it. Freedom of expression...bla bla...but why in a forum for climbing? The Internet is a big place...if you want to discuss your desire for masculine women, there are PLENTY of other places to do it...THIS shouldn't be one of them!!

um, not to sound like your grandpa, but what the HELL does this have to do with climbing??? look, i don't really care what people choose to do with their own lives - that's your decsicion - however please keep it to yourself and don't get others involved in it. Reading some of these threads, one would get the idea that the climbing community is a bunch of faggots, perverts and other sexual degenerates...not to mention that this is a public forum which KIDS might be reading...I'd rather not have my 10-year old kid sister read this shit... ~mr. Grumpy Conservative...

um, people...HELLO?! sad as it is, getting killed because of someone else's mistake IS ALSO A PART OF CLIMBING! It's a risk we take just like any other, it's an objective danger that we must deal with exactly the same was that we must deal with avalanches, rockfall and bad weather. Are you gonna sue God because you were unlucky enough to get hit on the head with a rock or piece of ice (it's happened to be before...)? That's about how absurd suing people for "causing" someone else's death or injury is...

hmmm...i've never climbed any "soft rock" before...here in the northeast most of our climbing is either on granite or on metaphorphic stuff like schist and gneiss. Personally, i'd get a bit alarmed at climbing anything that has the potential to crumble. But hey...

are there any other Russian climbers on here besides me? (you can probably guess by my nic...) esli est' - rebyata, zdorovo

if you ask me, this goes not only for mountaineering but for life in general. Over the past decade, this idea of suing everyone and everything each time something happens to you has been slowly but surely destroying the whole concept of responsibility for one's actions. It's society degrading itself...and to see this in the climbing world is even more depressing

quote: I went climbing with this guy that i was really hot for and was trying to impress him... so I picked a lead that was pushing it a bit for me to show him what a studette I was. Unfortunately I was so distracted by this guy that I was a good 20' up the climb before I went to place a piece and realized I'd forgotten the entire rack at the bottom of the climb hmmm...ya know, just a tip for future reference from a male perspective - a girl shouldn't EVER try to impress a guy with her climbing ability; it's the worst possible way to go...because nothing is more painful to most guys' egos than watching a chick climb harder than you. nah...i'm messing around with ya. Actually I personally am kinda turned on by girls who climb better than me, even though it definitely is an ego-deflater...

well, first off we switched halfway through (because the route is actually 2 routes connected by a large, tree-covered ledge), second when we jumar in free climbing it's sort of half-climbing half jumaring - you use only one and you use your feet to gain elevation. So it's not as boring as it could be...but yea, it's not the most exciting. Oh well. I've been stuck on a jumar like that more than once, ice climbing...it's a price you pay for efficiency...

ok, this is sort of a "group error", but here it goes (it's a classic...) This was actually only a few days ago. Myself and 2 friends were on a moderate (5.7) multipitch route on New Hampshire's Cathedral Ledge. Now, for a three-person group we developed the following system in order to improve our effeciency. Leader climbs as usual, belayed by a second who is tied into the other end of the rope. When the leader finishes the pitch, he belays the second up, who brings a second rope up with him. Once the second reaches the top and clips into the anchor, he fixes the second rope, yells: ROPE FIXED, and gets ready to belay the leader on the next pitch; at the same time, the third climbs up the fixed rope with ascenders; thus there's no unneccesary waiting time and in theory the group of 3 climbs as fast as a two person team. Oh, one other thing. We decided that on the very last pitch, there was no point for the third to jumar up - he would simply tie in and be belayed after the second was done. Well, as you've probably figured out by now, we kind of forgot to communicate about this little detail before the final pitch. In part it was cause i wasn't quite sure whether it was actually the last pitch or that we would need to do another one. In any case...i get to the top (tourist lookout and all), set up an anchor and bring up the second. Everything is good and well so far. Next, I yell for the third to tie in so i can bring him up. I hear some kind of response which i interpret to mean that he's already tied in, and give the rope a nice yank. OK, now imagine this from the perspective of our third climber. He's sitting there on a hanging belay, 500 feet off the ground, tied to an anchor but not tied to the rope because he expects to be jumaring...all of a sudden, the rope yanks up and... well, he managed to grab it just before I pulled it completely out of his reach...I on the other hand am still completely unaware of what's going on...i figure it's him and wait for him to undo the anchor. I'm waiting 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes...finally he somehow gets it across that he needs SLACK to tie himself in... when he finally reached the top, i was pretty damn glad i had myself anchored...and that he didn't bring a knife along...

OOOOOPS this should've been in the North face of Shuksan thread...sorry

guess i fucked up my Shuksan topography...well, i'll make a confession to you guys, i've never been on Shuksan nor have I even seen it in detail - only from a good distance, so all my knowledge of it comes from a relatively vague recollection of looking at a topo map, just for curiosity's sake. From what I remember, however, you can take the term "north face of Shuksan" two ways - either the whole thing with all the icefalls and glaciers, or the north wall of the summit pyramid. Maybe it's not the Nooksak Glacier i was talking about...i guess I forgot those details.