RuMR

you are missing the point...i had a totally shitty physical this spring that necessitate some "fixes" to my diet...goddammit, i miss cheese... btw, i'm invested heavily in the makers of viagra....

"parying" are you slurring your speech already or are you gonna fence? touche...and touching?

yeah...no shit...the frustrating thing is ALL of my climbing has been with my boys... maybe she's feeling left out?? WTF...

got yelled at from the wife for too much climbing... how goes it MVS?

more like a fist jam...

It took several years of apprenticeship under very experienced climbers/teachers before I had the audacity to call myself an instructor. When I was guiding, I was often asked about the difference between a professional (and more expensive) mountain guide and signing up with the Mountaineers. Without bad-mouthing the Mounties too much, I would note that mountain guides have a wealth of real experience and instructional ability while some of the Mountaineers courses are taught by the "graduates" of the previous year's Basic Course (complete with commandants holding clipboards with checklists). Ja wohl! There is also the matter of small groups and individual attention with a guide verses a herd mentality with the club instruction. On the other hand, the Mountie's paramilitary-like organization with all of its many rules and regulations tends to keep their courses and many of their group outings relatively safe, although perhaps mundane. A comment I recall hearing once was that they do us all a service by keeping otherwise dangerous people out of the more serious mountains. At this point, I don't really care, although I've experienced plenty of my own goofy Mountie encounters including some with their so-called "mentors" program, a.k.a. "the blind leading the blind". :TUP: best expression of what i was trying to say yet...

one of you says "no"...the other says "yes"... hmmm...

what about how to build anchors??? friends have come out of that class telling about some pretty spooky stuff...

i actually do the inverse and try to "slime" a hold after i'm done with it to befuddle my buddies!

:tup:

Some of the trepidation about these groups is the role of "the guide". To be a certified guide for rock or alpine instruction takes time and dedication. It is a significant accomplishment to have certification, and a significant resume is needed to enter the courses just to prep for the amga exams. In Europe, it's a trade program requiring essentially a college degree. These professional roles are being replaced by someone who has been through the Mountaineers basic program. Now it may well be that there's no problem with that, but it is something to think about before you launch into the Pickets with someone you might not know that well. There are often just a few bad apples creating a reputation, but it sure is lame to be with one of those apples! Of course, I'm sure the organization can make sure the right people are leading the right trips to some degree. You get guaranteed competence and experience if you pay for a certified guide for instruction or a climb. Some people are willing to pay for that.

what a fuckin' joke...so, you can't test out, but if take some stupid crash course that's even called "BASIC" you're qualified to teach??? WTF?? I wonder how many mounties'll get the smack this year... Very eloquent thoughtful comments RUMR I wish I could expect more, this isn't Spray afterall, but you seemed intent on taking it there. Yes you can test out, though in the past it's been difficult as you needed to test out of everything (back country travel, rock, crevasse rescue etc.) My understanding is that this will be changing significantly in the next year or so and you should be able to test out of just about any given skill set. Crash course? That's why to graduate it takes a minimum of 9 months, and at least a dozen days in the backcountry, though most people get out more. Hell, I'd rather climb with the 3/4 of the basics I've met this year than you And no one says basics are expert's, who ever thought that? Certainly no one familiar with the course. Basic grads know enough to be trusted not to put the rest of the party in danger, and that's it. It's an introduction, it was never meant to produce a complete well rounded independant climber. And no one ever graduates having only been exposed to 1st year intermediates. On the field trips this year that I've helped out the majority of instructors are people with at least 2 or 3 full seasons under the belt, and quite a few folks like myself who find it rewarding, and few more who have been climbing since you were in diapers. Overall, I'd much rather climb with a basic grad than someone who climbs 5.11 in the gym, and has taken 2 days of outerdoor rock instruction through VW or a guide. Someone who's taken instruction for say a dozen days over the course of several months from a guide might be a different story but I wonder what that would cost????? And your right Knotzen, there don't end up being many official non-course related climbs. If no one needs credit the everyone just goes out and climbs without making it official. listen, the guy asked about something that could potentially affect his life and i'm offering my views (very strong on this) that the mountie "situation" could potentially get you into big trouble or KILLED...go ahead, spew your doctrine my way...i'm waiting... 9 months and a dozen days...hmmmm, worldclass expert qualified to teach...granted, there are fast learners out there, but in general that is not enough time/experience to be instructing (even under someone with some real skills) others in a lifethreatening environment...look at SCUBA or any other organization that teaches something beyond basketweaving... i don't think anyone has advocated picking up a gym climber as a guide...the difference is the "trip leaders" are somewhat endorsed by the mountieabountie.orgyfest as being competent to lead a group...well, i've seen enuff o' em, that i beg to differ...

fuckifiknow... i was kidding...

no...but i've seen some of the folks that its turned loose...and even still, they have what? maybe a season of climbing tops? And most of that is under supervision (by another basic grad )... what's your point? So someone looks at the itinerary, gets a lecture on a saturday on one topic, then goes on a mountie-sponsored climb, then is an expert? sounds like the armchair warriors on this site...

elmer = me...

what a fuckin' joke...so, you can't test out, but if take some stupid crash course that's even called "BASIC" you're qualified to teach??? WTF?? I wonder how many mounties'll get the smack this year...

have fun on da' toof... ahhh...dreamin' of slug infested 5.6c/d mosspiles!

I could say the same about climber in general regardless of their affiliation. I've seen people who do stuff that scares me to death who have nothing to do with the Mountaineers. That said, there are lot of folks in the Moutaineers who are moderate climbers and just really like to get out in the hills and enjoy teaching, which I have a great deal of respect for. except its mountie doctrine to fuck everything up...

maybe...so far i haven't been able to make it for one stupid reason or another...but i'd like to...

hahaha...that'll show her! we need to hook the lttle ones up!

whatever...you have a soft spot in your chest for little tykes...

hahahaha... I'll stick with freestyle/greco...

you could most likely kick my ass on rock these days too...

i can't get any shorter these days...i just seem to get wider...