RuMR

i'm stuck at work...just shoot me...its cheaper than buying me a new life...

eat a dick?? hey, fuck you too!

I wish you the best of success with "Project Tvash". Trash is the best argument yet walking for a retroactive abortion, imo...

Funny, I paid taxes which educated "other people's" kids before I had kids in school, and will be paying for "other people's" kids in just a few years. Ditto for medical care of others. And I'm sure I've kicked in more than my fair share over the years, since I've always paid income and payroll deduction taxes. And I'm coughing up at least $1000 a month for insurance, but hey, keep pretending that YOU pay for MY kids. I assure you that I pay significantly more taxes than you do. But that is beside the point. Why would it seem like I am "pretending" that I pay for your kids, but you feel justified in saying that they will support me when I am old? Can you see the problem there? wont it be the children of today who pay your social security, medicare and medicade? we are certinly paying for our parents generation now. the problem being, their generation out numbers ours drasticly. because they had fewer children it will be a significant strain on the economy when all the boomers hit retirement. Muffy, have you looked at what SSI pays? My answer to your question (the same I answered to K3) is no, I do not expect to rely on SSI. I save more than 20% of my income every year in preparation for retirement and have done so for a long time. I have no plans to ensure my care to the hands of strangers with a system that may not be there when I am old. I was raised to believe that I must take care of myself. I have done so since I was 16 and I plan on doing everything in my power to be able to continue to do so until I am 116. i always thought you were gonna live to be 666!?!?!

listen, i said thanks, didn't i? Still doesn't mean i have to like it...

No minxy...that's not quite right...i find that recordings "suggesting" that what i like is the only activity that they like played on repeat all night long has been the ticket...i have 2 ropeguns under development...i have not yet begun (cue: evil sinister maniacal laughter) brainwashing the 21 month old little girl...at 2 years, intense doctrination into the climbing world will begin for her!!! THIS IS ALL PART OF THE PLAN....AHHAHAHAHAHAHA....SOON, THE WIFE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO FOLLOW HER CHILDREN INTO THE VERTICAL ABYSS!!!

plus, you can toss 'em into your skiboots also!! ...granted, the intuition liner won't be fitted to the shell, but it'll still fit your foot...

tomtom, you're a fuckin' tool...but that owl pic ROCKS...i've used it a ton at work in emails...

I think now you are saying something reasonable. I'd be pissed too if I was at a crag and it got swarmed. The group I'm in gets up really early so we can get there first, and we schedule our rock outings for late winter/early spring to try not to be in the way. Even so, if my group was at a crag and you showed up, we'd probably be able to work something out. maybe, maybe not...you, as the trip organizer, will naturally owe serious due to people who signed up under your org...obviously, you will support your group first, and i will be muttering "assholes" under my breath and will vent it...

I don't know, but I participated in the rescue of a climber with a broken ankle off the seracs at Mount Baker without SAR or Mountain Rescue assistance. What are you really getting at? Self-rescue is extremely difficult in any circumstance, even if you have been exposed to the concepts. Even if you are an expert. I think it's virtually impossible for a small group to rescue anyone over miles of terrain, you always need a lot of people for that. It's the things you can do immediately when an accident occurs in the backcountry, before emergency responders have a chance to show up, that are more likely to make the difference between life and death. I am convinced that a graduate of one of the intermediate courses has a leg up on most self-taught climbers, merely by having spent at least one weekend working on self-rescue techniques. How many of you who have never taken a class have practiced any self-rescue? Maybe I am mistaken but I feel like this is something that is usually overlooked. Basic class graduates... yeah, I don't think they have much knowledge by which to execute a rescue. But this is no worse than a group of friends who picked up FOTH and started figuring it out for themselves. I think this is really just a recurring argument that happens whenever someone mentions a climbing club: anyone who is self-taught or whose buddy was a climber and brought him into the sport wants to chime in and diss the big group. The way you learned might have advantages but it isn't an option for a lot of people. Purely by the numbers it doesn't work out. In a class like this, an 8-student team can learn a lot from 3-4 instructors and come out of the class fairly knowledgable, fairly safe, and ready to continue their climbing education in whatever way they see fit (or quit, which a lot of them do). It works pretty well. There are different ways of doing things than what you have done. I was impressed when I saw Pope in the newbies forum volunteering to help out a beginner. That is constructive; most of this thread is not. i dissed the "group" for calling dibs on a cliff in advance...basically saying "Look, we are going to X, so YOU go somewhere else"...how can you interepret fender's post anyway else????

Well...FWIW i can't stand organized climbing...it goes against everything that attracted me to climbing in the first place...Its great that other people get something from it, but it isn't for me. On a personal note, i have been "pushed" out of areas before when i've had a couple of young kids with me. Unfortunately, young kid climbing (read: easy approach, low angle, readily topropeable) is exactly what these types of groups need.

short answer...NO, they aren't really less likely to need professional help anymore than others as a group...

ding ding...round 3 (or 4) here we go here we go... So, i guess you "implying" that you'll be "rescuing" me sometime soon wasn't a jab??? and how's my jabbing the mounties/boealps a personal attact on you?

i'm slow these days...too much work...

actually, maidinmontana, you are right...most of the climbers on this website (or elsewhere)who didn't get formal training are complete jokes... [DRIPPING SARCASM]

Not really. I'm sure quite a few people don't bother to learn this stuff. And calling it rinky dink is insulting to those teaching the classes. Many of them with experience that may actually surpass your own (GASP). DON'TCHA THINK? it is a big assumption to talk to a complete stranger (me) and make assumptions about my climbing experience... Nowhere have i ripped yours... And frankly, i've seen a lot of "instructors" that are a complete joke...and in a position to get people really fucked up...yeah, sure there are highly qualified people everywhere...

I completly agree. Judgement is probably more important than anything else. Some of this can be gained by listening to higly experienced instructors while also preparing for the worst. Even the best, most cautious climbers can get hurt. However, I believe RuMR's issues were not with the apparently reckless climbing style being taught in classes, but rather the confiscation of HIS rocks. oh...i get it..."my rocks"... Last time i checked, i wasn't reserving many cliffs for a weekend...how about you?? You sure seem to take offense to me taking offense at an ORGANIZATION...

WOW! Stunning... when are you back stateside, Tim??

Matt, i always bring my ten essentials and a tauntan or two... Fender...sorry for busting your chops (i do recognize that you were just posting a "heads up", very courteous) but i HATE organized climbing with a passion...

ok then build me a safe, efficient rescue system from memory in an acceptable amount of time. I am sure you dilegently review these things so it should be no problem.... This is taught in a BOEALPS course, and something I am sure you would be glad other people know when you get yourself into trouble. Unless you are too proud to be rescued by a graduate of one of these riduculous classes. pretty big leap of yours to just assume that if you didn't attend one of your rinky dinky classes that there is no other way of getting knowledge, don'tcha think???

jeebus...maybe i need to start soaking my hands in formaldhyde? tc's the only place i've ever taped and thought it mandatory- layton and i only had enough to do half our hands, and i recall bleeding like a stuck pig only 10 feet off the ground. i am, of course, a cheap hack though and make no claims to master tech-nique! tc's is certainly much grittier and coarse than the basalt of the portland area or the smith gorge. it seemed like god had just gone over all of the basalt blocks wiht a great big sandy paint brush. What he didn't say is that he's never been there. i've been there...personally, the texture stops the sliding in the crack, which in turn, stops the tearing... I don't tape much of anywhere though...

i seriously doubt that the mounties will be rescuing me anytime soon... although, from what i've seen, it could quite likely be the reverse... i have no wish to join that community...and i don't have an elitist attitude...it is YOU that have it..."uhmmm, we are here teaching a class...please step aside"...

i haven't been to indian creek - is the easiest climb there a painful 5.9? there's only 1 clmib at that grade at TC i recall, then everything else goes to .10 and above, and all on incredibly painful rock where taping is a must! incredibly painful rock? Huh? I have yet to need tape there...

argggghhhhh...why do you even do it????

i wasn't spraying...i think its flat ass rude to reserve cliffs...