iain

Tupper is supposed to be a fun little jaunt.

anything in the canadian rockies at 5.8 A2 right?

That is a difficult question to answer. Do you include all the work time missed by volunteers? do you count per-hour operational costs of helicopters? do you count medical costs? do you count volunteer-related expenses and risks? you can see why it is difficult to levy a fine on someone.

quote: Originally posted by Dave Schuldt: Got into the sport!!! LOL! When viewed from afar the activity looks like a chronic mental condition doesn't it? I often think about how much cash and time I have dedicated to climbing (and it certainly has not been that much compared to many of you). Sometimes I wonder why I'm doing something that is the equivalent to punching myself in the arm so that I can better appreciate life when I stop hitting myself!

TG: it's great to see the look on peoples' faces when you wander back into the parking lot in the dark to head home as they set out bleary-eyed to fill out that registration card.

Your point is well-taken but it is my opinion that in the mountains, people have to watch out for themselves. Climbers must accept and account for all associated hazards, be it falling rocks, falling temperatures, or falling people. It is up to you and your team to weigh constantly all of these hazards. I don't climb routes when people could knock rocks down on me and I stay the hell off the south side of hood as much as possible, particularly during the peak season.

I saw that. involuntary manslaughter for failure to self-arrest?? your guess is as good as mine.

wow. I've always wanted to get on that thing. maybe next year.

Thanks Roger. There have been a good number of "violations" of this statute in Oregon, but no one has been charged yet (as far as I know?) [ 08-13-2002, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: iain ]

I can say with some certainty that no one is at risk for being charged for nat'l guard or airforce assistance in a SAR operation in the N.W. If a contract helicopter is involved, that could change, as they may bill the county sheriff, and that's a big bill to swallow. Most SAR groups in the states would probably prefer to not charge anything, as they would then be charging for a service and be open to lawsuit in cases where their "duty to act" was not upheld. (Though rescue groups, volunteer or not, are still subject to suit).

Dunno. It seemed a little strange to me. My guess is it was more just a statement to reinforce the risks we were taking and that the ACC wouldn't tolerate a bill. It was just a bunch of people from the Calgary section heading up for a week, not guided or anything.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: See that wasnt an emergency, that was just for the flight, i would guess... even Whitesaddle has stopped taking cheques from climbers thery dont already know now... bad bouncing experience last summer. No, this was just to insure that we had a way to pay for a rescue. The numbers were torn up after we arrived safely back in Golden. We had already paid for the flight w/ Alpine Helicopter.

I just remember going on an ACC trip to the Clemenceau area and the organizer wouldn't let us board the chopper w/o handing over a visa number to the pilot! That got the gears turning a bit. Maybe it was not a concern.

Yes, I think it applies more to places like Chamonix, etc where rescue is a professional service, or places like B.C. (correct me if I'm wrong Dru) where you are highly likely to be hit with a helicopter bill for an evac. That said, I carry AAC insurance to demostrate that I am willing to be responsible for my activities in the mountains in the USA, even if the percentage of money going to climbing rescue is so miniscule compared to general SAR. In Oregon, there is a provision in chapter 401 ORS for billing a climber who is considered negligent. How is negligence defined? It is worth reading it to find out, as crap such as MLU, cellphone, etc is mentioned. I'll post it if people would like to see it, otherwise you can find it on the oregon gov't web site. I believe CO has a similar law? While I think there is only a remote chance of AAC insurance being used in the states, I could not afford to deal with the consequences otherwise and I consider it a political move more than anything.

Dru, ça, c'est la vérité. Merci.

quote: Originally posted by MountainMan: Iain = 15 year old bored internet surfer. Nothing but the finest quality today! Such wit is simply unanswerable; I surrender to the wordsmith. Nice work, anyways on FC's. My friend had an epic on the route when his partner almost fell to his death. He had to stabilize him overnight on a tenuous ledge with a broken arm waiting for the helo evac. Shows what can happen when you 4th class stuff in a hurry. His partner refuses to climb again to this day.

yes I know. how can you have a motto if you don't know what it means? Anyways the only reason I respond is that you are so high-strung your responses are hilarious. I'll stop posting that trival galen rowell news then too. I know that was juvenile. from now on, only chest-beating trip reports! just remember to relax and keep the nitroglycerin Rx. for the M.I. S/S's close by.

quote: Originally posted by MountainMan: Iain, does your babysitter know you're using the computer? once again you respond with immature spray to a serious question in the sacred "North Cascades" section rather than "Spray". Toujours pret? Ça, c'est trés amusant. Toujours bête et toujours ennuyeux, je decide, l'homme des montagnes.

how was the brush?

well why don't you join and schedule an event then?

#11 hex as dinner bell.

quote: Originally posted by texplorer: I wonder if in 50 years from now well still be posting on here. Probably start talking about all the old hardman sprayers and how all the new posters have lost the ancient spray arts. Maybe we'll speak of the old legends of spraylore and how they were able to turn an informational site into the sprayfest it is today. Yes, well look back on the this time as the Golden Age of Spray. Here's one to all the old school members Tex your post reads like the intro to Masters of the Universe or something

jiggy snaffles know where the party's at

be sure to hit the roadhouse in Golden, they have a pole on the stage

quote: Originally posted by Dru: another 31 posts and you'll be a horsecock lover... Back to the topic at hand, excellent! Thank you Scott'safety Research for another excellent sprayfest. [ 08-12-2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: iain ]