Off_White

num1mc, are you a contractor also? The guy-with-a-truck competition is pretty fierce out there for anyone who plays by the rules, pays their employees a living wage, and includes benefits. Recycled may be looking to save a little money on this bit of work by taking advantage of his locally depressed labor market, but it doesn't make him a hero. Welcome to the WalMart world, where nothing but cheap shit needs to be available at the deepest discount because the working class is paid so little they can't afford anything else. It's a self-perpetuating race to second world status, go USA.

I'll take Pat's word for that, and I don't really want to play the game the lot of you seem to enjoy so much.

well, I love science too but ignoring some of the evidence isn't science. Another way to to make use of set theory: Hitler also loved women you know, and he had a mustache.

The pejorative in question is not about YOUR private parts. There are far more graphic photos of death in Afghanistan for Bill to use, I'm thanking him for not going there, but its all your tax dollars at work.

I can't speak to what j_b has eaten, but if you're seriously interested in checking out local cheeses, plenty of which is produced with raw milk, you might check out this list: Washington Cheesemakers Association

I know that "fuck it, I'll just pull the piece and unclip it later" feeling. Great vid.

What a great day out

Which do you think does more harm? I'm not a proselytizer, small batch pasteurization is a pain in the ass.

Another vote for what Dru's having, though come to think of it, dinner tonight is local salmon at the graduation dinner for the Nisqually tribe. Odds are the ham is coming from Walmart though.

I think there definitely is some anti-raw milk sentiment in federal agencies, but I don't know exactly what the root of that is. People are not so good at risk assessment, and we all readily accept risks inherent in supposedly regulated agricultural products that greatly exceed the threats posed by raw milk. We looked at the WA State regulatory hoops we'd have to jump through to legally sell raw goat milk awhile back, and the hurdles weren't too high if we really wanted to pursue it. We wound up steering away from that business though we did do a little below the radar "donation" based product sales of milk & cheese to friends. The requirements for rapid chilling of the milk and such really just make good sense, and healthy animals in clean environments don't present much risk. If you know the source of your raw milk, eggs, or whatever, and are familiar with the farm's practices, you can make a reasonable judgement call on the food's safety.

Presumably the feds are involved because of the "across state lines" business, raw milk sales are normally regulated at a state level. Washington State is not half bad at this, and works with farmers to make it possible. Most of the practices they require are common sense cleanliness issues, and its not over regulated. In the OP's article link they make the argument that other raw foods are not banned, but unlike milk most other raw foods are reasonably expected to be either cooked or washed before consumption.

Yeah, fuckin' hell, eh? It cut loose pretty well out here today, undid any benefit we had out of the grey gloomy weekend. Looks like another late start season here in Tenino...

Well, at least now those Blackwater types can stop quibbling about how they're not mercenaries and just admit they're available to anyone who'll pay the fee. How long before they go to work for Shell or Nike?

Oh cough it up Mito, we want the goods, not your photos of adjacent routes!

I'm going with gopher snake.

link I've locked this thread to limit info duplication.

Misspelling of "poquito" and the signature would translate as "I am a man of few words."

Note that there are some areas that have wooden corrals around the vegetation and "no dogs" signs. They've had problems with dogs "nesting" at the base of the trees, digging down to cool soil to hang out, and it's been a problem. I particularly noticed it down in the valley below Tribal Boundaries, near New York Is Not The City and other routes in that area.

[video:youtube] The bit about the obesity epidemic at 2:17 makes this on topic, but it's a fine rant all the way through...

Tvash is on holiday today.

Does carbon fiber give you lighter fluffier poops, is it better than metamucil?

Are you just looking regionally? Washington & Oregon aren't really big wall territory. Liberty Crack as John mentioned is a good suggestion, as you can fix the first bit and skip the bivy, and there's more free climbing than aid. I'd guess the Grand Wall is too popular as a free climb to treat as a first big wall, and I don't know if anything else up there is suitable unless you've got a decent bag of aid tricks. You said you're working on your aid experience, that's a good plan. Index or Beacon can help with this. Get notes from Ivan, he seems to have worked on it in a focused manner and would have some good advice. I think you're gonna wind up looking to Yosemite for what you want. South Face of WA Column is a classic first wall, and you can bivy on the ledge. Lost Arrow Direct is another wall with large comfy ledges and nothing too hard on it.

Perhaps you should have posted in Newbies?

I just wanted to give Toast a thumbs up for the advance notice, something he does every year even though it often starts one of these mountie bashing threads.

There's a web of trails and lakes heading north from White Pass that would fit the bill, pretty casual walking. Buckaroo's Wonderland Trail suggestion is pretty great too, it puts the big damn mountain on display nicely and those alpine meadow "parks" up there are dreamy. Consider whether the crew is up for the hump from Carbon River up to Mowich Lake, but do that part if you can. Most of the really wow stuff in the Cascades requires substantial physical effort.