ivan

is it the place of the cops to negotiate demands for nation and international political and economic reform? The police is used to break the movement so the 1% and their politicians won't have to negotiate. The movement will eventually find its political expression. It's not a matter of if but when. There are more discrete demands than they know what to do with. OWS represents the 99%, the overwhelming majority of which wants universal health care, jobs, raises in the minimum wage, etc .. is it "breaking the movement" to restrict the camping requirement? it doesn't seem so to me. sure, the movement will ultimately find its political expression, but everybody knows what it it will be (and is less than enthusiastic about it for good reason): the 2-party republican democracy we've been kicking down the road for 2 centuries now. yeah, it sucks, but really, wtf else is going to do it? americans, the likes of de toqueville and james fulbright have pointed out, are a profoundly UNrevolutionary people. not that anyone wants to consult me for strategy, but i think the occupy folks would do best to take just a couple of those issues (at least for each discrete city-based occupy movements) and hammer on them. shit, even the bolsheviks kept it simple, right? land, bread, peace. so...health-care, living wage, home?

i'm pretty certain in our modern poltical environment that the bonus army would have met a much more satisfactory ending - even the media you're quick to castigate fell all over itself to trumpet the near-killing of scott olson in oakland shit, the occupy folks would do well to follow the bonus army's lead: 1. put your best foot forward (veterans and the like, folks who have been working hard, playing by the rules, and are just down on their luck, not tweakers who don't give a shit about politics beyond getting high and sitting aroudn the mission (yeah, i KNOW that's just a fraction of the occupy-movement, but the occupy tactic has attracted those folks to their make-shift camps like flies to shit and is thus making it easy to generalize the whole movement as such)) 2. go to where the powers that be do business (the national capital, if your goal is a national one) 3. insist on a specific demand (the bonus army wanted it's goddamn bonus! it was simple to say, simple to understand, not particuarily hard to do, and easy to know if it had in fact been done) anyone want to offer their theory on how the bonus army would go down today?

is it the place of the cops to negotiate demands for national and international political and economic reform? is it possible to negotitate with 99% of 300 million people when they put forth no group to conduct that diplomacy? is it possible to compromise with a group that doesn't have a list of discrete demands?

gotta love the random crazy shit - a few years back meth-tweakers sawed through the line running from my gas cap to the gas tank of my car, yet didn't appear to remove any fuel or any other damn thing, save my 3rd wedding ring which i'd left in the ashtray w/ my change

yeah, i disagree on the "demonizing" bit - i've seen plenty of sympathetic or at least balanced reporting on them, and as i've said, i'm hardly an enemy of increasing the economic and political power of wee folks like meself one of my best friends works right where the portland occupation's been happenign - he's about as damn screaming-liberal as they come, but he expressed his disgust to me a few weeks back at the general feel of the folks who were representing the movement there, and not b/c he disagrees w/ the general message. sounds like it was a large # of portland homeless and crazy types smokign tons of weed at all hours and basically hanging out and being sketchy. at the basic level of strategy, it seems the movement needs to go back to the drawing board, if that's the face it's going to put forward.

might not for the emunclaw-set, but it'll be fine 4 me sadly, having not written down lovely tatyana's # from ad-banner, i am cursed to wait in sadness for it to reappear

repression of the movement by the establishment isn't compromise. It's refusal to negotiate. yeah, i think you're going to lose the man on the street w/ that line of thought - the police generally seem only to be repressing the camping element, which is, what i say, for the masses the whole movement is being reduced to in the absence of several clearly defined and achievable goals the question i keep fielding from a bunch of students, and don't feel i have a decent answer for, is: why can't the protestors sleep somewhere else? i guess any publicity is good if you want to attract awareness, but it does seem, in the admitedly small bubble i live in, to be garnering more negative attention than otherwise.

my google is broken I have provided you with the definitive answer to your given question. Why the angst and dilly-dallying about with the 'bone and Dru? Fourth post down from the top, suh. so sorry very much i am feeling but understanding suddenly am i that the only units i comprehend for fine female flesh is stones and hands - how many hands high is beautiful tatyana, and how many stones?

my google is broken

i'll do just about anything for beer - setting a reminder and will see if i can't rope in some friends - the only thing that could ruin it is my parents showing up for thanksgiving a few hours earlier than i was hoping

i don't watch tv, so i doubt it. Good for you, but I suspect it isn't the case for most people around you including here. Did you ever hear the corporate media complain the Tea Party didn't have specific demands within the first 2 month? OWS participants don't suffer from a lack of demands, they suffer from lack of political representation that would champion these demands. OWS participants not only have specific gripes (jobs, education, health care, etc ..) but they are also fully aware of the take over of government by corporate interests. Taking back power won't happen in a few months so you better get used to the idea of seeing them around ("Petulance"? sheesh! get a hold of youself) alright, i suppose it IS an article from a major media site, but still, this seems neutral-enough, and seems to have the conclusion that the mother-ship new york occupy movement in fact can't manage to assemble a set of demands, largely b/c they have no practical leadership: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45260610/ns/us_news-life/

of course it's their right, i'm just saying if they wanted to build a "bonus army" style encampment and stated publicly they wouldn't leave until a flying saucer, piloted by obama, landed in the square, that i and is suspect most reasonable citizens wouldn't feel justice had been shit on when, after a couple of months, they got chased out of the square at night but were allowed back in during the day to "continue the movment." the touchstone of democracy is the necessity of compromise - shit, i'll trade hoboes and occupiers unlimited camping rights on public property if in return i don't have to pay a northwest forest pass to park on public land?

How about English next time? sorry, i haven't been able to crack miloshk's password just yet

again, if there was a coherent demand for somethign that might tangibly be accomplished in a few months, the occupuation-element of the protest wouldn't be an issue - as i currently understand it's framing though, folks are prepared to go hang out all day n' night in public parks in perpetuity Are you saying that you can only peaceably assemble if your protest is "coherent" enough, or if what you're demanding only takes a few months to accomplish? are you saying that me n' my friends can build "awareness" barricades across i5 until the government confesses all it knows about ufo's? life's messy and no right is absolute, even the right to life as the pro-capital punishment crowd will attest - the occupy movement has many lofty goals, most of which i imagine i support, none of which will be fully accomplished by turning their movement into a percieved bunch of petulant children demanding they be able to sleep in a pup-tent in my local park till doomsday i, personally, am not to set the parameters of peaceable speech of course - i recon that's what the whole framework of our republic is supposed to do, no? laws, executives and courts (and yes, public opinion as it is expressed in a million ways) all are in the business of making our many rights and needs coexist as well as possible.

i'm sure our resident aclu-klan lizard can reel off a # of instances where the supreme court has permitted restrictions on the freedom of speech again, if there was a coherent demand for somethign that might tangibly be accomplished in a few months, the occupuation-element of the protest wouldn't be an issue - as i currently understand it's framing though, folks are prepared to go hang out all day n' night in public parks in perpetuity

You're talking about the cops, right? i don't think so i should point out that i don't particularly care if anybody wants to camp out in a city park for the next 50 years, as i don't really like spending time in cities anyhow...

i don't watch tv, so i doubt it. i've seen a wide variety of signs n' video clip sound-bites from occupiers - sure, the message is generally anti-corporate, but what specifically each person said they want has not shown a clear pattern to me - of course this is a different kind of protest than say vietnam or recently in egypt, there the object was very easy to make clear and quantifable - end the war, get the fuck out of office. what specifically will the occupiers of any one of the cities currently in play require in order to be happy? when will they know they have it? you're missing the point indeed if you think i'm anti-occupier. of course i agree w/ many of their points, more so at any rate then i'd disagree. i do understand though how folks who are a good deal more conservative then myself are put off by the greyness of their demands. some of the protesters seem to be unwilling to accept anything less than the complete abandonment of the capitalist system we've been using for centuries though - what rational person could possible conceive of that occurring?

hard for folks indefinitely to stand by anyone who's primary message seems to be they'll campout in the middle of a public park till their incoherent and unquantifiable demands are met, no?

we were outta range in the wayback of the station-wagon for corporal punishment, so my dad figured the best way to keep us boys from drinking the dregs outta his beers on long car trips was throwing his butts in the bottom of the can

nothing says i love you now and forever quite as much as bacon roses

above banner ad promises me many funtimes yes with tatyana lovely girl from ukraine - says 52 kilograms and 165 centimeters are figures for her - wondering i am is hard-on appropriate with these figures - help me to know and ahead of time i say thanks!

perhaps the compromise woulda been more likely to work if, instead of draconian cuts beginning the day of the deadline passing, each party got to select a member of the opposition to eliminate? a few weeks into the impasse, seems like all the central problems to further comprimise oughta be pretty well gone, providing plenty of free space for new-age jeff smiths to arrive?

...then boy is this the story for you! jesus-fuck, i can maaaaaaybe understand if the car's got someone other than you in it, but wtf?

i blame the pollsters

wheelchair-boy seems to know him well enough to hate him and his goddamn cat?