mtngrrrl

I guess if you're just making quick draws and you want them to be short, then tying webbing loops may not seem that practical. But I'd hate for you to think that it's unsafe and only to be relied upon "in a pinch". A big loop o' webbing tied with a water knot with adequate tails is perfectly safe. Cheaper than sewn runners, too. Can you elaborate on why it would produce unreliable results? I'm very curious. Another method to keep the biners from flopping around is to wrap a rubber band around the runner right below the biner. It's probably easier to remove than duct tape.

Sorry, but I cannot comment on Huascaran specifically, just your altitude questions. Drink looooooooooooots of water. Pee loooooots. I've carried diamox on high altitude trips, but I've never used it. I've seen people using it who claim it helps. I believe, though, that diamox is basically a diuretic so it's forcing the water through your body and draining you to flush the toxins out. As a result you get thirsty and drink lots. Keep in mind that diamox is NOT a panacea. Some people have no positive effects from it and others have negative effects such as numbness and strange tingling. Read up before deciding if diamox is for you. I've been successful by just forcing lots of water in all day long, and eating full meals, even when I didn't really feel like it. Truly, I cannot overstate how much drinking will help. I've seen people wallowing in pain who refuse to drink. I've seen people stumbling up mountains who refuse food and water. You'll piss like mad, but it helps! Rodchester is correct in that a lot of factors go into how each of us reacts at altitude. The effects are not fully understood from a scientific perspective, though you'll find plenty of anecdotal evidence. Some people may suffer at 2500 meters. Other people will have no trouble at 4000 meters on one trip, then feel horrible the next. That said, pay attention to your body. Mild AMS should be expected. If you can plan a couple of floater days in your schedule, that will help you if you feel you need to acclimatize more at some point. You and your partners should watch each other daily and note changes in behavior. You may not realize you're getting listless and not eating, but a partner might. I've seen more than enough people vomiting on mountains who refuse to accept that they need to go down. Knowing that AMS leads to HACE and HAPE should be enough to let you know that a summit isn't worth it. Descend if your body can't handle it. If you have a chance to get out of your oxygen rich environment in the weeks leading up to your trip, do it! Go as high as you can and sleep out. If you can start doing this a month ahead for each weekend before your trip, it will certainly have a more positive effect than sleeping at sea level will. Acclimatization wears off quickly though, I think in two weeks you'll lose nearly everything. One last thing about altitude. Watch out for HAFE. No amount of training can prepare you for High Altitude Fart Emissions. Most likely you or your tentmate will come down with a case of HAFE. It's unpleasant but not cause for immediate evacuation, except maybe from the tent.

You must be new around here, starting a POSITIVE thread about manufacturers.

quote: Originally posted by Jason Martin: Three things are being expounded on in this thread: 1) Mountaineers Heard Mentality2) Rudeness in the Mountains3) Poor Instruction linked to over-reactive egos... They've been told that they know everything they need to know to instruct. They passed their class. So if they don't know a specific technique it must be wrong. Egos are inflated by this position. They are in charge. It is their job to point out techniques that are "wrong." Unfortunately their toolbox of techqniques is nearly empty, so they don't know what's wrong and what's right. They feel that it is their job to "instruct" people who are not in their party... <snip> What if it took two, three, or four years before a person was allowed to "lead" groups? What if they were required to learn about mountain ettiquet during their courses? What if it were pounded into them that rudeness is not acceptable in the mountains? What if they always limited their group size to six or less? I think we, the non-mountaineers, have a responsibility too. I don't think its right to attack them or be rude to them because of their group size or attitude. I think it's all of our responsibilites to show beginning climbers that rudeness and unsoliceted advice is not acceptable ettiquet. I also think it is all of our jobs to limit our group sizes and impacts on the environment. Jason raises some interesting points on improvement. I have previous experience "training" climbing leaders to take a group to a crag, set up a technically competent toprope anchor and have a fun time with a small group of climbers. While we hammered home how important it was to learn the technical aspects of this kind of trip (setting a safe TR anchor using nuts and hexes) was extremely important, we also placed a strong emphasis on people skills. Leaders and instructors should be relaxed and inspire confidence as well as an openness to their trip members and the people around them. Generally it took a few years and plenty of leading under supervision before one became a leader. If they weren't good with people, they weren't good for our organization because they were leading newbies and interacting with the climbing community as a representative of our org.Sure, it was a different organization nowhere near here, but we still required a LOT of our potential leaders and that was just for toproping!! This whole thread bums me out. I moved here with a lot of hope for joining the Mountaineers, taking some classes and joining the instructor ranks. I haven't given up on the idea. But if I'm on a trip and a leader tells us how stupid a soloist is or refuses to let him/her pass us, I'll be all over it. Soloing, however you feel about it personally, is a decision that an individual climber has the right to make. I'm sure we'll hear the argument about how the soloist in danger puts everyone else is at risk when they have to save them, but I stand firm in my opinion. Hopefully it won't get me kicked out. Like gearbot, I, too, am unqualified to follow on the Tooth. That's OK. I'd rather lead it anyway.

who would win the battle of the hypnotic animals? alpinekitty or devil dog of ballard?

Last week I had a good conversation with the woman at the climbing counter about ropes. I ended up buying from rei-outlet. I have also gotten great help from a guy who used to make skis, even though I wasn't buying anything. Then there was the guy who helped us stock up on stuff before a big trip to Asia last fall. He was great, very low key. We ended up going to the store a coupla times in the course of a week and on our last visit, I discovered that he had been up Everest in the 80s. I was impressed that he didn't lead with this information and was quite humble about it all, even sharing a story about one of his teammates who didn't make it back. On the other hand, I've run into plenty of people with little useful knowledge in the store. In Redmond, a friend asked if they ever sell their rental rock shoes. (Good for trashing in the gym.) The high schooler said "Dude, you gotta like, get new shoes. The gotta, like, fit like a glove." Thanks. Something that frustrates me about the Seattle store is the cash register in climbing. That area often gets congested and then people like me can't get to the counter or get any help in the department.

quote: Originally posted by mtngrrrl: By the way, a pal of mine is taking the Boeing-Mountie course and an "instructor" said he carries a can of dog food as his extra-extra food to ensure that he only eats it in case of a true emergency. I have nothing more to add since that about sums things up, if you ask me. Sorry folks, I am misinformed. I thought the "BoeAlps" were taught by the Mountaineers, but I've been informed this is not correct. Seattle newbie, what can I say?

Um, back to the issue... my SO and I recently moved to Seattle and joined the Mountaineers. OK, I've admitted it. I'm out. As far as I can tell, they have a good reputation outside of the PNW due to all the work of the Mountaineers Books. Oh, and Beckey adds to the allure. Now that I'm a capital-M, Mountaineer and I have a card to prove it, I have seriously mixed feelings about the group. Our first Mountaineering adventure was "Basic Climbing Equivalency". As moderately experienced climber types (I feel so unhumble to say that), this seemed like the thing to do. We marched like brave soldiers to the Camp Long confines to show our stuff. Even though I detest the bowline (and the freakin' bowline on a bight which a Mountaineer is REQUIRED to use when roping up on a glacier), I performed all the tricks on the tick list. However, I argued in favor of the butterfly knot for glacier ropes and even taught my "instructors" how to rappel with the munter hitch. (Heh-heh, thought it couldn't be done... ta da! Take that, caribiner break!) My "leaders" skeptically eyed my orange plastic Petzl pully (read: light), but when I slipped an ATC into the Z-system to prevent the prusick from jamming things up, eyebrows were raised. However, even after going over my (ugh) climbing resume, and discussing my alpine and glacier experiences which aren't too shabby, but certainly not Mark-Twight-extreme, one of my "leaders" said something to the effect of, "Well, I'm sure you're an excellent rock climber and all, but a basic equivalent is supposed to be more well rounded." Ahem. I was taken aback and a little mystified. After thinking it over, I feel he made that blind assessment based on my age. Or at least his perception of my age. I mean we just finished talking about the non-rock, higher altitude peaks I've done, and this was his response? I guess I should be flattered that he thought I was part of the pusher crowd. But perhaps he was just laying the groundwork because it seemed to me that the whole equivalency exercise was geared to hold people back. I failed on navigation. OK, so I'm not Columbus with a compass, but I did OK, especially considering there was a flaw on the worksheet. (Couldn't you guys get that figured out ahead of time?) I also tend to work a little slower with a map and compass, so I was often still working when the engineers in my group were shouting out their answers. The kicker, though, is my SO's experience. First, his "instructor" insisted that he keep his helmet on while sitting at a picnic table filling out a form because the day was supposed to be a simulation of a true day in the mountains. When my SO asked why the instructor wasn't wearing his helmet, the response was "because I'm in charge." Hmmmm. I guess simulated rockfall doesn't hit the people in charge. Suffice it to say, tension increased throughout the day. When time rolled around for setting up their Z-system, his group of gumby "leaders" failed to recognize the system and said it was wrong. Hello? Can you see the Z? They had to call over the guy in charge of this shindig to confirm that yes, indeed, it was a Z-system. Nonetheless, my SO failed this portion of the test. We still don't understand why. His "instructors" were basic grads from the previous year, and given their level of knowledge and frighteningly superior attitudes, neither one is welcome on our rope. Since I realized that I would have to do navigation, conservation and MOFA before going on to the capital-I, Intermediate level AND the fact that I already lead climbs on my own that they Mountaineers won't even LET me lead, I'm a tad soured on the whole thing. I have experience teaching climbing and working with beginners, and I was motivated to continue along these lines with a new club. Plus, I freely admit that there's always plenty to learn and I would enjoy learning from folks who have more experience and knowledge. But there's got to be some give and take. I got to talking with another Mountaineer higher-up from a different committee about my frustrations. His basic word was that if I wanted to give my energy to a group, the climbers clearly weren't right for me. They have a "That's the way we've always done it and that's the way it will always be done" mentality. Anyway, we went on to try out the SKI Mountaineers. They're a fun group. Much more easy going and far less rigid though still safe and confidence inspiring. The instruction was uneven, but I got some good information out of the course. I'll also take MOFA because I'm lacking in that arena. In the meantime, I've met some Basic Climbing grads and it frightens me to think that they could be teaching folks. I also dislike the way the Basic Climbing course churns robots out who think that the Mountaineers way is THE way to do things and terrible consequences are imminent if you're only packing 5 essentials. By the way, a pal of mine is taking the Boeing-Mountie course and an "instructor" said he carries a can of dog food as his extra-extra food to ensure that he only eats it in case of a true emergency. I have nothing more to add since that about sums things up, if you ask me.

i went to smith for the first time this weekend and heard about your stuff getting stolen. i had also heard about the subaru gear thief. my friend told me there was someone with a master key roaming around. we also had a subaru, and needless to say, i was worried even with the car alarm. i kept my gear with me. that really sucks. on a positive note, i give smith a thumbs up. the people were friendly, the weather was great, and the spot and the rock reminded me of orpierre merged with the dolomites. i had a good laugh over the stick clips and the howling dogs. i enjoyed switching between trad and sport climbs so easily.

You could try contacting KINAPA directly. When you do the peak, you have to sign in and out, so they probably track accidents, though it might be a paper system. You could also try contacting the British, Canadian or American embassies in Tanzania to work on more leads. Another idea is to try to contact Cameron Burns who wrote a Kiili/Kenya guidebook. Lastly, you could post on the Lonely Planet's thorntree. Kilimanjaro National ParkPark WardenP.O. Box 96MaranguTanzania

i just read on smithrocks.com that you cannot camp in your car at the state park. d'oh! we were planning to sleep in our vehicle in the parking lot while some friends tented. except for the steamy windows, who would know, right?? having never been to smith before, can anyone tell me how rabid the rangers are?

The race was mentioned in Off-Piste Magazine's March issue along with a good report on Team Canada's first participation in the World Ski Mountaineering Championships in France. (See page 4.) We'll probably be hearing more about ski mountaineering races since some organizations are trying to make it an Olympic sport.

And I thought you were talking about your new sig file. Just to give equal time to copyrighted nude photos... [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: mtngrrrl ]

Carolyn, I just read your accident report. Glad you're OK!! I took an unpleasnat fall a couple of years ago ski touring and it's changed me. I didn't break any bones or even get seriously injured, similar to your situation, but it's made me a little more chicken out there. I'm still at it, just being more cautious, sometimes too much so. Then I later ask myself, "What the heck am I afraid of??" It wears off, but possibly slowly. Best advice out there is to keep at it. Ciao.

Ya know what's funny about lurking? Someone posted photos from one of the PCs, and the next week, I RECOGNIZED one of you CCers out there, somewhere in Seattle... I was about to pee my pants and point at this unsuspecting soul and shout "I SAW YOU ON THE INTERNET!!" It was an odd feeling.

I have used travel insurance several times for up to six months at at time. Generally, it's only good outside the U.S. and is void upon your return. From what I recall, policies from different companies are pretty much the same since (I think) they go through the same mother company. At the time I called a bunch of health insurance companies from the yellow pages and asked about travel insurance. The rates were nearly identical. I honestly cannot remember how much, but it was reasonable even for me, a frequently uninsured, currently unemployed cheapskate. It took only a few minutes to get: fill out the form, write the check. As a climber, you should ask for the "Risk Rider" (or something like that). This rider will cover things like skiing, scuba and climbing. However, there is probably a limit on elevation, which is where the AAC insurance comes in handy. I had AAC and CAS coverage for higher altitude rescue insurance, but depended on my general travel insurance for things like breaking my arm while sport climbing. One thing I remember about travel insurance is that it did not cover bacterial infections. E boli? I thought that was odd, and I wondered how that might come into play. I also recall that the insurance operates on reimbursement plan, so you would have to pay for the costs up front, or have the medical center bill you. That's a little scary, but so is breaking both your legs skiing and not having any insurance. Fortunately, I've never had to cash in on the policies. Nary a broken bone, knock on wood. Make sure you read and understand your policy, the rider and the limitations before you sign up. Carolyn, I don't know about the situation you encountered over the weekend, but if you were in Canada just for the weekend, having a travel insurance policy might not be appropriate. I'm really not sure. The insurance companies will let you know if you hammer them with a bunch of questions ahead of time. And as for getting regular insurance, I have what I call "hit by a bus" insurance through Fortis Health. Emergency only, $1000 deductible, about $50 per month up to 6 months. It beats the family getting on my case about getting insured. Hope that helps.

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: Well just heard FB cannot make it. Will try with him next week in Seattle or wherever. He says if it's sausage fest he will not go then though Be in the Quah later tonight. if FB goes next week, i'll go. and i don't have a sausage.

quote: That's where the hoochie mamas live. hoochie mamas?? oh my.

we don't have a tv, and we're not much into sports bars so i'm relying on anyone out there who is into bars and sports. know a good place in the seattle city area to watch the olympics? also, can one get eurosport on u.s. cable?

hey thanks for all the feedback. didn't mean to post and dash. i'm sure i was not wearing so much clothing as to restrict circulation. each layer fit comfortably over the next with no uncomfortable tightness. it was bloody cold though. i also wondered if it might be the sciatic nerve, but my symptoms don't match with what i've read. a pinched/aggrevated nerve does. as for other activities, i'm an sometimes road runner and skier. i've been stretching more after these activities, and it seems to be helping a bit. i'm glad to hear other people have other similar problems. <i'm not alone!> i used to cycle a lot and i had numbness problems until i changed saddles and adjusted the tilt rather aggressively. things were much improved after that. dan, you probably tried all this, but just in case... hope looms on the horizon for a "real" job, so i'll check out a PT if/when that rolls around.

while i was on a climb this fall a strange thing happened. here's the scene: i was plodding up a glacier in the dark on a rope team. we were moving on the slow side, but trying to keep it steady. the wind was coming from my left, hard, but no harder than i've experienced and not of the gale variety. i was wearing a layer of duofold tights, a layer of fleece pants and a pair of gore-tex shell pants on the bottom. i'm pretty sure i had an additional down layer on the top. hands, head and feet were all well-protected. (i'll have to check with my partners about the temperature since i don't remember.) at some point i noticed that my left hip had gone numb. my initial reaction was that it was cold from the wind constantly hitting it. i banged on my hip with my fist a bunch of times each time we paused. my hip felt weird and kinda tingly for the rest of the plod, and i had an occassional unsettling zing shoot through it, sorta like pain, sorta like how your funny bone feels when you hit it. i felt a bit like my left leg was cold to the bone. coming down from the summit, the sun was up, and i don't really remember much about my hip problem. i just remember being hot on the glacier for a change. on the way out of the mountains, the numbness returned from time to time, as did the strange zings. i thought maybe it was from sleeping on the ground for an extended period. i use a ridgerest, but they're not very soft. and i sleep on my side a lot, right where the funny area is. it's a few months later now, and i still have slight numbness and some rare zinging sensations. i was wondering if anyone else out there has experienced something similar. maybe it's from the cold. could it be frostnip of the hip? my legs were the coldest part of my body during the climb. maybe it's from sleeping on the ground for a few weeks, though that seems bearable. maybe it's a combination of factors, or a simply result of my body just crapping out. (doesn't the warrenty expire after 30?) yeah, yeah, i should go to a doctor, but i'm one of the legions of unemployed with disaster-only insurance, so i'm avoiding that. anyway, unprofessional medical opinions are appreciated, and professional ones are even better. feel free to share your own bizarre body stories.

my leathers are not heavy duty... a pair of la sportiva makalus for women. like i said, i have been cold in them, but i'll hang onto something until a good deal comes along. i did 4 and 5000 meter peaks in them, and i stayed warm enough as long as i was moving. ice climbing in them worked adequately for stiffness, but sucked for cold at the belay. i only got my alphas in september, and i'm looking forward to getting a lot of use out them. they had great out of the box fit and comfort for me, a pleasant surprise since i had low expections for plastics. about the velcro deal, i like it. i guess the drawback is for serious iceclimbers, which i surely am not, but when i'm cold, bleary, and perhaps a little hypoxic, slapping some velcro together is easier than tying laces. i guess i still have to tie the outer laces. and the velcro did grab onto my socks a couple of times leaving a furry mess that ticked me off. hmmm, what was that i said about liking the velcro? ymmv.

i think woody quoted groucho in annie hall.

as for the warmth question, i tend to have cold feet, and the alphas kept me warm over 6000 meters. standing around at the base of an ice climb might be colder than walking up a glacier at midnight. my level of comparison is limited since i've only used leathers up till now. i felt that the alphas were plush after years of freezing in leathers, and i am thrilled with the lack of clunkiness. they worked well scrambling up a rocky trail.

well said, sisu suomi. i like hexes. what ever happened to having a diverse rack? slcds are nice, but expensive and there's just something more satisfying about placing a bomber hex.