mtngrrrl

And... what did he think? There's a guidebook out there that says "this hike will change your life..." It's pretty but, So Cluck, what did you and your sweetie climb?

Thanks Redoubt. All good ideas to work in. Mixing it up is always good. Lummox, I think you've been staring at your little animated gif too long. You're fried.

All I have to say is welcome to more alpine climbing more. Two turntables and a microphone...

Thanks to all (minus 1) so far. Russ, I hear what you're saying about reracking. Good point. Consider this: I can rack each cam individually on a biner. Then I carry single slings across my chest without biners, and a couple of doubles with biners (to weight them and prevent them from tripping me). I'd then chain a few spare biners on the rack for nuts. By racking each cam with one biner, I can girth hitch a single to the cam sling, then move the racking biner to the sling to which I attach the rope. I've taken to doing this lately, but a partner recently raised eyebrows, hence I'm soliciting opinions. I've found the weight and bulk savings to be a relief. Also, I'm talking low to mid 5th class alpine stuff, not super hard--to me anyway--routes. That's not my thing. Yet.

Thanks IIB. I did a search, but didn't turn up this article. This is the info I was looking for:

Piss off butthead. Not a troll.

Topic: girth hitch your cam sling to a sewn sling to save on biners. Discuss please... Note: do not girth hitch slings to wired nuts or hexes. No need to discuss.

You don't need permits for Sahale. It takes about 12 hours car2car at a moderate pace. Nice trail hike, onto scree, ascend glacier, scramble summit block. Water is available at glacier, but it's all dried up lower, though there is slight water run off over the trail. Snow line is high right now, so glacier travel is short. Some potential snow bridges to cross. Some open crevasses down low, but not really scary. YMMV. Perhaps someone thought it was a troll is because there was a thread about Sahale being a GF climb. http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=221646&Forum=UBB2&Words=sahale&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=3weeks&Main=221646&Search=true#Post221646 If you're looking for a rock climb, the North Face of Kangaroo Temple is an easy, low low 5th class on only a couple of moves. Takes about 3 pitches with minimal pro. If you're interested, I'm sure people would post more info. I'm just wondering (and I'm not trying to be mean or troll)... but don't any of the guys around have a GF who climbs at least as hard if not hard than they?

Cheers to that mate.

My lips are sealed. Ditto, but your nose is smaller than I thought it would be. Glad you had a good climb, except for the shoe deal.

Nice report! Were you the 2 guys in the parking lot on Saturday hanging out discussing various subjects like "capillary training"? We were the 2 who cooked dinner at the blue minivan before taking off. Bad, bad weird dirty guy in blue.

Well everyone is different, but I guess I don't feel that spending a bunch of time on an alpine route automatically leads to "disaster". I mean, why can't these bonds of which you speak just be a close relationship? I have had more excellent male partners who I found attractive and admirable, but I (and they) were/are committed to our partners. What do you mean by disaster? Do you mean getting crushed out? Do you mean acting on attraction? If so, to what extent? My partner and I do most outdoor stuff together, but not everything. We don't have "limits", but it hasn't been much of an issue. We're just committed.

Dryad, this song's for you... Gary said: 3) why make Basics shell out an additional $100 in gear? Puh-leez! If they WANT to wear rock shoes, let them! If they want to wear boots, let them! Here again is that "independent thought" theme. I agree with Crackbolter, if newbie climbers are gripped and terrified on their first ROCK climb, they will probably benefit from wearing rock shoes, and maybe they'll have a more enjoyable time. Hey, they can always rent them instead of purchasing. Furthermore, I bet a lot of us bought whatever sale shoe we could afford when we started climbing. And some of us probably still adhere to that approach.

Yeah, but it's also a new design. They probably wouldn't notice since they don't seem to notice the out of date yellow one. Heck, we could probably all cut out bright green rectangles with "FEES SUCK!" written on them in black marker and hang them in our cars. Hmmm, maybe I'll try that.

Because you can't. It can only be demonstrated. -t Once, I was an intermediate student on my very first mountie basic climb (never did the basic course) when the leader suggested we rap off of this ridiculous, horrible rock that I could have probably hip-checked off the summit. I pointed out the obvious rap via a nifty threaded placement that lots of people had already used. He still vied for the rock, and I said that I wasn't going to rap off of that. Nu-uh. No way. Then, I proceeded to ask some other folks on the summit who I had been chatting with what they thought, since they had been there before. They, too, pointed the the obvious webbing-choked rap anchor. Finally the leader said OK. What struck me was that the basics were in awe of me for having "independent thought". FFS, thought I, this is YOUR LIFE here. Speak up! I only did what I thought was right, and they were amazed that I stated my opinion. One even said, "Way to stick to your guns up there!" Sheesh. Later, I realized that there is this hierarchy in the club and perceived status associated with being an intermediate student, assistant leader and leader. To me, status is gained by being good at what you do, regardless of your title or your club. So, I can add my 2cents on is the class worth it. Well, it costs a bunch of money. In theory, I've received some formal training, a chance to practice it and an opportunity to watch and learn from mistakes. Can't say I've learned much, though high angle rescue was all new and very interesting. Too bad we didn't focus on small party rescues, which is where most people probably find themselves. No, that's yet another $100+ and another course. Anyhow, Alex, I think one needs to be cut from the right cloth (wool?) for the club. I'm not very good at "doing it this one way, and one way only, because the leader says so", which doesn't seem to be in keeping with the basic trips, which you will have to go on for credit as a rope leader. On the intermediate climbs though, no one was checking my every move. It felt more like just plain old climbing, but with people I didn't know very well. Strange, but OK. I've met some great new partners and potential partners that I might not have met otherwise. You've certainly roused the full gamut of opinions, and I'd say they're all accurate in one way or another. Don't let anyone here make you feel like you shouldn't take the class because you won't be "cool". And don't let any uber-mountie convince you that it will be the best experience of your life because it was for him/her.

Add the Special Groomed Trails Permits that XC skiiers have to pay in addition to the SnoPark Permit. I don't mind paying grooming fees, but I do mind paying 2-3 fees for one stupid afternoon of XC skiing. My yellow NW pass expired over a year ago, but I keep using it. So far so good, but now they changed them to bright green. I hate the fees.

From the Observer, earlier this summer... Decades of devastation ahead as global warming melts the Alps A mountain of trouble as Matterhorn is rocked by avalanches Robin McKie, science editor Sunday July 20, 2003 The Observer Mountain guide Victor Saunders and his companion Craig Higgins had reached the Solvay bivouac hut on the Matterhorn's Hornli ridge last week when their balmy morning climb turned into a nightmare. 'An enormous avalanche hurtled down the mountain's east face,' said Saunders, one of Britain's leading climbers. 'I have never seen so much rock falling at one time.' The pair survived by cowering under an overhang as a rain of boulders ricocheted past them. It would have been a remarkable enough incident on its own. But within a couple of hours, another massive rockfall thundered down the Matterhorn - this time from its north face. 'Even then we still did not realise what kind of a day we were going to have,' said Saunders, for a mere hour later, distant thunder and billowing dust betrayed the triggering of yet another avalanche. In the end more than 70 climbers had to be hauled from the slopes of the Matterhorn, in Switzerland, on Monday - one of the biggest mass rescues in mountaineering history - as rockfalls battered its ridges and valleys. Those climbing its slopes could have been forgiven for thinking the crown jewel of the Alps had started falling apart under their feet. And they would not have been far wrong - for scientists now believe global warming is melting the Alps, threatening widespread devastation over the next two decades. The great mountain range's icy crust of permafrost, which holds its stone pillars and rockfaces together, and into which its cable car stations and pylons are rooted, is disappearing. Already several recent Alpine disasters, including the avalanches which killed more than 50 people at the Austrian resort of Galtur four years ago, are being blamed on the melting of permafrost. And in future, things are likely to get much worse - as scientists will point out tomorrow at the opening, in Zurich, of the International Permafrost Association conference. Held every four years, the meeting provides climatologists, civil engineers, and geologists with a chance to exchange research data about the icy layers that coat the ground in the world's coldest regions. Rarely has a scientific meeting been so timely. 'I am quite sure what happened on the Matterhorn last week was the result of the Alps losing its permafrost,' said civil engineer Professor Michael Davies of Dundee University, and a conference organiser. 'We have found that the ground temperature in the Alps around the Matterhorn has risen considerably over the past decade. The ice that holds mountain slopes and rock faces together is simply disappearing. At this rate, it will vanish completely - with profound consequences.' Part of the problem, engineers and geologists have discovered, is that air temperature increases - the result of climate change - are being magnified fivefold underground. A test borehole, dug in Murtel in southern Switzerland, has revealed that frozen sub-surface soils has warmed by more than a degree Celsius since 1990. In addition to general air temperature rises that are heating up the ground, increased evaporation caused by warmer summers is also triggering thicker falls of snow which insulate the soil and keep it warm in winter. The trouble is not just that ice is disappearing, however. Research by Davies - to be outlined this week at the Zurich conference - has discovered that ice as it warms, but before it actually melts, may actually be more unstable than ice that is turning into water. The key to this work has been Davies's work with a seven-metre centrifuge in his laboratory. 'When you spin things round very quickly, you create very powerful gravitational fields, and when you place objects in these fields the effects of gravity are speeded up,' he said. 'We have built model slopes and peaks and put them in our centrifuge to study what happens when soil and rock is warmed up and the permafrost, which holds the ground together, is degraded. Essentially, we are simulating landslides.' The aim is to find out how to spot early signs of the imminent collapse of buildings and valleys, he said. 'Cracks and strains, the first evidence that cable stations and other buildings are under threat, may be easy to spot. This gives engineers an opportunity to put things right.' That is the theory. The abrupt disintegration of the Matterhorn last week reveals how tricky life in the Alps - one of the world's top tourist destinations - is going to be. As Davies said: 'We are going to see a lot more of this sort of devastation.' It is not an issue that worries Victor Saunders too much at present, however. He is merely grateful he got off the Matterhorn alive. In the end, he and Higgins had to be clipped to the end of a 100-foot wire cable trailed by a rescue helicopter. Then they were flown from the mountain, hanging like 'a cargo of fragile china dolls,' he said. Guides at the mountain resort of Zermatt are now mending the fixed ropes damaged by the avalanches in the hope that they will be able to keep the Matterhorn open for the rest of the climbing season. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1001674,00.html

Testing is a good idea. Test with a wet rope, too, if you can. That's when I found out my nylon prusiks slipped on a 10.? rope without an extra wrap. I have a loop tied off at the top of the foot prusiks, and squeezing an extra wrap through it was pretty tough. I have not tested my prusiks on my skinny ice lines though, so I'll be interested to hear what you come up with. This site has good photos of the various friction knots: http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/prusik.htm

Just an insignificant patch on the slope below the S.F., which you can easily avoid or walk up if you prefer. I wore sneakers for the approach.

After drooling over the photos, we finally got around to Vesper. True to previous reports, route finding can be confusing, but it's a very pleasant climb. Headlee Pass looks like a pretty place to camp if you want to do the route in two days at a liesurely pace. Once above the pass, we picked a notch to descend across the glacier to the climb's base. Dunno if it was the "right" notch, but it worked. The glacier/snow slope was moderately steep, with some crevasses at the bottom. Crampons came in handy for a fast and confident crossing. We tried followed Nelson's description, but in retrospect, I think we started waaaaay climber's left of his line in the photo. It looked like the "largest depression" to me! Crossing the moat was fine, but choose your spot judiciously. First pitch went fine, a tad burly with dry moss. Angled up a series of ledges headed right. I could tell someone had climbed it at some point because they had gardened just the same spots I needed for my hands, but probably a long time ago. Second pitch, about the same. We kept angling right to make sure we would hit the slabs. Leading through the heather was a blast. Time to brush up on those simul-climbing skills here. Near the top of the first heather pitch, I looked up into the steep north face. My partner hollered that our slab was way more right, and a lot easier. (Oh, happy day.) After another wandering heather pitch, we traversed the lower portion of the slabs to get to the open book. Here we finally clued into some simul-climbing. Duh. It was great to be back on clean rock, eventually falling in behind the two parties above us on the slabby corner. By the way, these belays are hot in full summer sun. Bring your sunblock. These last two pitches were stellar. The corner crack takes enough gear and the stances are comfortable. Topped out to a festive welcome brigade of mosquitos and horse flies. All in all, a fun moderate climb. Took us 7 pitches, but next time I would simul-climb a lot of it. Lesson learned. I never felt sketched, and gear went were I needed it.

Cheers! Bug dope already packed.

Bringing it back up... anyone been there, done that? Woo hoo! 100 posts! I've been upgraded.

Great post jeffski! Thanks for the details. BTW, which direction should you have been facing in that chimney? I totally identify with phrases like "agonizing", "grunt", "thrutch" and "falling apart mentally and tensing up badly". And climbing with multi-language groups, too. The difference between "A little tension please" in English and "Tirez la corde!" in French is, um, enough to yank you off a climb as I found out the hard way once. Nice job sticking it out for the summit though.

Carolyn, Take your own sig's advice. I'd add to read Lynn Hill's book. Then go climbing some more. And most of all: have fun. I started on trad, tried a little ice, added mountaineering, then added sport. I'm now dabbling with bouldering. It's all climbing. It's all fun. Cascade classics are fun. Smith is fun. The Calanques are fun. Chamonix is fun. The Gunks are fun. Via Ferratas are fun. Volcanoes are fun. Got climbing? Got fun. These non-debate debates are not fun. Remember, you said it first: Fuck the mind games, just climb.