Norman_Clyde

Hey you guys, I'm seriously up for a formal or informal Snoqualmie to Stevens relay before the snow comes this season. After run/walking the first ten miles from Snoqualmie last week I've been trying to figure out an excuse to cruise that whole section in 1 or 2 days. I have to find something else to do if I'm not going for a one day climb of Olympus, after all. Anybody know just how many miles of trail we're talking about? 50 or so?

I have already become self-conscious when I sign on to cc.com on a weekend. Even tonight I'm thinking, "but who's had time to post a TR? If they're wise, they're on the hike out this very hour." But I have an excuse-- I'm on call. Can't leave town but can still get outside. Golden Gardens was very nice this afternoon. Now, if I can just get there for a pub club before winter comes...

I believe that Peter Croft free soloed them all in one day, starting with Stuart N. ridge and proceeding eastward. He probably stopped at Little Annapurna but I'm not sure. Hard to top that one, but a repeat would certainly be noteworthy.

It's spelled Coeur d'Alene. How many miles is that? How many per team? Is this all on foot? Now that I'm recovered from my 22 mile loop on Sunday, I'm thinking I should go for more trail marathons.

Regarding the question about the cost of transporting the body of a deceased climber back to his or her home country: when my dad climbed Kilimanjaro in 1993, he was required to purchase insurance to cover the potential expense of shipping his body back just in order to get permission to climb. He was part of a small group guided by Eric Simonson. I'm sure this is not required for all mountains in all nations, but I guess Kilimanjaro is notorious for precipitating altitude-induced deaths among gung-ho European gapers. One middle aged German client (not in my dad's group) dropped dead from a heart attack the day my dad summitted. I'm sure a poor country like Tanzania doesn't need the expense of sending deceased Europeans back to their respective Dead Letter offices.

But wait, I signed onto this thread for a TR on Fisher Chimneys. That's only 4000 vertical from Austin Pass. Where were the other 9000? Come on, come on, don't be shy.

I've heard that you're not a real ultramarathoner until you've had visual hallucinations in the Badwater ultra. But it doesn't have the Western States 100 mile run beat for elevation. That one is something like 16,000 up, 22,000 down, and the record is about 16 hours.

Overnight or single day? Corkscrew or another route? Which way did you approach?

I took an overview of the entire Torment-Forbidden enchainment while climbing the W. ridge last month, wondering about bivy sites, since the book I had looked at (big coffee table book, something about 50 climbs... is that the same one you're talking about?) said there were only a few bivy spots. As of mid-July there is still enough snow on the N. face of both peaks to allow a party several options to carve out good sized bivy ledges, where the snowfields top out on the rock. Also, there's room for a bivy at the top of the W. ridge couloir. There is one spot on Torment where you'd save a lot of time by traversing North of the ridge, but if you're a purist you could stay on it the whole way and it would probably be the same low to mid 5th class as the W. ridge. Once on the summit of Forbidden you would have the usual descent options, i.e. downclimb W. or E. ridges (even with a rap, I guess the E. ridge still requires downclimbing/simulclimbing while roped).

Anybody have directions to the Park Pub?

I've heard there is a non-technical crossing over Shuksan Arm, but having been on both sides of it now, I couldn't tell you where, and if you got it wrong you'd waste more time and elevation than if you just bushwacked from White Salmon Lodge. There's a set of cliffs just NW of the White Salmon that is reminiscent of the Dolomites: scenic, but no simple descent. I don't agree that the NF approach is the worst bushwack in the state-- although it's the only bushwack I've done that also involved a rappel between two waterfalls. The worst I've experienced was Baekos Creek, just South of Boulder Basin on Glacier Peak, which I did because I thought it would be "safer" to solo a bushwack up a non-glaciated valley than to solo the Sitkum in August in perfect conditions. What a joke. All that would have had to happen was for me to get a big scratch across the eyeball from the 500th alder branch to whip me across the face. I would have been incapacitated and no one would have found me for a week. [ 08-04-2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Norman Clyde ]

I saw that guy's mechanized tracks on the Nisqually and upper Wilson in 1999. They went up some slopes you'd think would be very tricky for any hand-driven "mechanized" device-- you had to be impressed. To hassle this guy for use of such a device makes about as much sense as prohibiting camming devices, or even hand-driven water filters, because they're too mechanical for wilderness. (Oops, I'd better shut up before someone gets ideas.)

Lowell, did your brother Gordy climb Forbidden's W. ridge on July 21? I met a guy named Gordy at the summit, and he looked a little like your brother did in a photo I saw of him in a ski magazine when I was a kid ("Gordon Skoog-- a Backscratcher"). He was simulclimbing with someone named Gus, the whole mountain as a day trip, wearing smooth soled shoes up the couloir.

I have to agree with you, TG. I tell myself that trying to squeeze too much into too few hours will be unrewarding. But the more often I do it, the more fun I seem to have. Even if I don't make it to my chosen destination, I get more out of the faster trips most of the time. I'm all for leisure and meditation in mountain settings, when that's what the trip is about-- but I usually feel more in harmony with my surroundings when I'm really moving it and covering a lot of ground. I've never been up the Hoh, but I bet I would remember just as much of it in a 30 hour trip as a 4 day. Too often I catch myself zoning out on the return anyway. Fast and light keeps me alert.

See, you guys? It's not only possible, it's already been done! All we need now is to choose the date. And start getting back into shape for a long run.

I might be talked into this. If you guys are serious, send me a pm.

If you have to buy a dozen Tiblocs before you plan to simulclimb, and set one up at every piece, then how much is simulclimbing "simplifying" your ascent? I debated simulclimbing on Forbidden W. Ridge last weekend, and it's true we were slow because we didn't do it, but in the end it didn't seem worth the time saved, at least on this particular date with this particular pair of climbers. I think the situations in which simulclimbing is more favorable than either careful unroped climbing, or the usual belay are fairly limited.

I first went up there in 1998, figuring based on the guidebook that a one day solo was not too much to expect. I found that class 2 was a bit of an understatement for the E. side of Deception: I tried a more direct ascent and had to back off when the small mushy snowfields reached about a 55 degree slope. Rock and dirt is very loose, also: wear a helmet. I went up in late July, but the snow was I think much less that year. It's a beautiful setting: the climbs may be somewhat shorter, less steep, and looser in general than the Cascades, but I still think that the experience of climbing in the Olympics is underrated. Have fun!

Those axes with the metal heads are too newfangled. Mine has a flint head that I pounded myself. Maybe I'll move up to obsidian someday.

Ted, you must have been the group of 4 we passed about one third of the way up the ridge. Brad was not interested in simul-climbing, so our progress was pretty slow, and the third party (Gordy and Gus) summited just a few minutes after we did. We let them go down first, then did belayed down-climbing, one rappel, some 4th class scrambling unroped across some ledges on the N. face, then one more downclimbing pitch to the snow. MtnMan, we were the highest party camped below the glacier, and the ranger was perfectly happy to climb up to us and check our permit. I suspect there are few places in the basin they'd be unwilling to check out, if they thought someone was there. Maybe they don't check further east, below sharkfin-- I don't know.

I was the one climbing in boots, but I actually led every pitch since Brad's not into leading. There were a few spots where better friction would have been handy, but I never felt the need to get the rock shoes out of my pack. Instead I carried rock shoes, picket, and axe to the summit for no good reason (except to use the picket to free up the rope stuck in a crack). On Saturday we were tempted to hike up to the shoulder of the E. ridge to camp on rock with nice views, mainly because there were no decent bivy spots on bare ground down below. But I decided not to explore that far, since none of the rock ribs below had any decent flat spots either. I noticed during the climb that the E. shoulder is broad but not flat, so it's probably not worth it to climb so high just for a scenic view from camp. [ 07-23-2002, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Norman Clyde ]

That was me and Brad under the tarp. We actually put it up for shade in the afternoon. We should have taken it down at sunset, because it flapped noisily all night. Our spot was only semi-exposed, since we were behind a hump of snow that offered some protection. I left my big pack at camp, and a marmot chewed away part of the hip belt while we were on the summit. He was still casually hanging around when we got back, completely unintimidated by human beings. Maybe on summer weekends the people outnumber the marmots up there.

Some may prefer the alpine start, to give you solitude on the ascent. I've been honing my discipline and improving my skills at being part of the last party on the route, to give me solitude on the way down.

My buddy Brad and I climbed it yesterday. Boston Basin was as populated as I'd ever want to see it. Some of you may not agree, but I myself am glad that there's a permit system for this place, otherwise the magic of the place would diminish. The snowbridge to the gully is down to about a foot wide at its apex, as of Sunday. There's hardly room to plant boots and an axe on it at the same time-- actually, since it overhangs a little, our axes poked through to the other side a couple of times. Snow was very soft, but the boot tracks are well packed and solid. Some parties were setting up belays in the gully, since there's no break in the exposure down to the bergschrund, but it would depend on your comfort level. The pair we met at the summit, Gordy and Gus (Lowell, would that be your brother Gordy?) had come up the gully in footwear much closer to rock shoes than mountaineering boots-- slick rubber soles and all. I myself preferred the opposite approach on this mountain, i.e. to climb the rock in mountaineering boots. I unintentionally carried a picket to the summit, and felt silly for not leaving unnecessary gear at the gully top-- but the picket became unexpectedly useful, when it was the only item that could free our stuck rope after a loop slipped down a crack at one belay station. One more thing worth mentioning: there are two big seracs just East of the snow finger which are likely to calve in the next month or so, and when they do, the debris will probably carry all the way to the high camp. Brad and I were napping in the afternoon on Saturday when we heard the rapid approach of a falling object-- it was a very small ice block that flew down the main Eastern gully next to us, but stopped just short of the tents below. We couldn't figure where it had come from until a few hours later, when a small snowfield above and East of the glacier let some more blocks loose. We watched these pick up speed, headed right for us, until they mercifully followed the fall line just to our right and shattered impressively on a rock rib. The seracs are poised to fall in the very same direction. If you camp below the glacier, better to be on the Western side, I would say. [ 07-22-2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Norman Clyde ]

You have piqued my morbid curiosity. How and where did this climber get hurt? "Entering" the chimneys-- would that be the crux of the climbing trail, so called "fat man's misery"? Very unfortunate, whatever the circumstances.