Norman_Clyde

Hiked to Snow Lake (just to the saddle, actually) with my kids, plus about 3 out of every 4 residents of the Puget Sound region, plus all their dogs. But better that people bring their dogs on a busy trail like this one, where any self-respecting snafflehound is miles away. Had an unexpected chance to hike at Rainier today when a Dept. of Health meeting in Olympia got canceled. I was definitely not dressed for hiking, but I blew 6 bucks for a pair of beat up sneakers at Value Village. Did a loop from Longmire to Van Trump Park, back down past Comet Falls to the road, ran a mile down the road to rejoin the Wonderland Trail back to Longmire. Huckleberries and vine maple are aflame. No snow yet. Only got one blister. The sneaks will go directly back to Value Village for another round. [ 10-15-2002, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Norman Clyde ]

I'm still clueless about posting actual photos onto this page, but here's another nice Hetch Hetchy photo: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?pan:57:./temp/~ammem_98vn::@@@mdb=manz,eaa,aaeo,aaodyssey,hh,gottscho,bbpix,bbcards,magbell,berl,lbcoll,cwnyhs,cwar,consrvbib,coolbib,coplandb ib,curt,dag,fsaall,aep,fine,fmuever,dcm,cmns,cowellbib,toddbib,lomaxbib,ngp,gottlieb,alad,mcc,mymhiwebib,aipn,afcwip,fawbib,omhbib,pan,vv,wpapos,psbib,pin,presp,qlt,ncr,mesnbib,den n,runyon,wtc,detr,upboverbib,varstg,horyd,hawp,suffrg My computer's paste function wouldn't operate when I had the cc.com URL window open. Help me, Tim and Jon!

Erden, if you're counting, here's my vote: Don't rename the route. The relative confusion it would create, the controversy over which name to use in any future guides to the area, would not convey the honor and respect to Göran (hey, the copy and paste thing worked!) that you (we) are trying to put across. Although I think your personal use of a different name is honorable, and if enough people agree with you, then the new name will catch on. Carve the memorial at the base of the climb. Sure it's a little scary. It ought to be. Some of you sportos must also have climbed Rainier, or other peaks with history of numerous fatalities, and been aware that X number of people have died on the same route you are now climbing. In my opinion it's better to know than to be in a state of denial. I didn't know Göran, but I think he'd want us to keep climbing, keep enjoying life; accommodate the fear, and see if we can put it into context so we enjoy our own lives all the more with the time we have.

Uh oh, Goat Boy's on to me...

In the interest of promoting scientific discussion: Pacific Northwest Gaper Gaper Taxonomy

I'm going to look at the map to see where these other traverses start and finish. If the Blue Glacier is remote, then Dodwell-Rixon pass and the Queets basin must be even more so. Mikebell, do you mean crossing Glacier Pass and heading out the Queets or Elwha? Either way it's got to be 50 miles or so.

TG, I confess I was a little shocked to see you advocate free soloing as a way to advance one's climbing skills, but this advice in the context of the thread I would not consider irresponsible. The thread was for the purpose of soliciting different opinions from a wide range of people, and the poster did not come across as a completely gullible newbie, ready to blindly follow bad advice. I hate to think that anyone would take up free soloing just because someone in this forum suggested it. I guess I presume we're all adults and capable of making our own decisions. These days people get criticized for making that assumption, but to single out your reply as irresponsible, considering some of what gets posted here, is a little off base in my opinion. That being said, I generally agree with the viewpoints of Peter Puget, and I believe that further dialogue on this subject would be worthy.

Thanks, Goat Boy. If I have any regrets about our fast and light approach, it's that we didn't allow the time to stop and admire all those monster trees. If you're going to be a Douglas Fir for 1000 years, the Hoh valley is a good place to be one. I was doing the math last night on a 14 hour round trip. Since there are approximately 38 trail miles in there, not counting the climb itself, at 3 miles per hour the hike alone would take almost 14 hours. To give yourself a reasonable 7 hours to get up and down the mountain, you'd have to average 6 mph, or a 10 minute per mile pace, for 38 miles, not counting the climb itself. I'd like to shake the hand of the person who did that! I'd also bet that he/she had the luxury of snow cover on the lower Blue Glacier. We crossed on hard blue ice. Still, it was cool to explore the ablation zone of a big glacier in the fall. Not many crevasses, but there sure were some scary sinkholes where the surface melt had found its way down deep. I couldn't see the bottom of a single one-- not that I got too close to the edge to try. As PP said, if you fell in you'd need more than a rope, you'd need scuba gear.

Olympus in a day! We came, we saw, we conked out! (Actually PP didn't conk out until the drive home.) No, we were not trying to set a speed record, just setting a challenging objective. I would not have beat on myself that hard just for the sake of bragging rights. During those last 9 miles I was asking myself why I did join this crazy scheme, since at that moment I was feeling the worst of it. But today I have no problem remembering why. Strange, how those unpleasant sensations of pain and exhaustion manage to fit themselves into an overall pleasant context, once the whole thing is over. Now I remember the moonlight on the peak, dawn breaking over us, and the elation of rounding that last rock shoulder to the summit, and the effort it took to get there and back lends those memories more gravity.

Thanks, Ryland and Eric, for sharing your opinions with the rest of us. You too, Chuck. Dissent is good. Legitimate exchange of ideas redeems this forum. Now, my 2 cents about cell phones: when you're sharing a physical space with others, then forcing them to listen to your private conversation is a violation. It's basic anthropology: it breaks certain unwritten social rules. The more people spend their lives in their cars, on the phone, AT THE COMPUTER, the more the culture seems to be forgetting ancient guidelines of human interaction. We're still 98 per cent chimpanzees, and we should not be so casual about ignoring the chimpanzee rules. If you stand next to me and talk loudly to your invisible companion, gleefully ignoring my presence while simultaneously making it impossible for me to ignore yours, it's a gesture not to far removed from the . I hope to escape this very thing in the mountains, so if you care about your inner chimpanzee, please refrain from social calls when on a climb.

The glacier itself is pretty low angle, though sure to be somewhat icy at this time of year. I would bet there's not much snow left on the remainder, at least if you're heading up the saddle between Deception and the Needles. You could always try those instep crampons-- I just picked up a pair, pretty cheap and lighter than the full set, though I haven't tried them out yet.

The five miles to Austin Pass from Lake Ann will feel mighty long to you. I haven't done the Sulphide but I bet it's easier to stay on route descending the Chimneys. Finding the start is probably the only tricky part. The illustration in Beckey, which I thought beforehand showed the whole chimney system, actually shows only the very start as seen from half a mile beyond Lake Ann. Once you get that far it should be straightforward. I'm all for doing such climbs in a day, but you'd be in the dark a good amount of the time, so be prepared, although hiking out from Lake Ann at night is no big deal.

Happy Birthday to Allison! Many happy returns of the day!

Happy Birthday to Allison! Many happy returns of the day!

Sign me up. I've read the self-rescue book and practiced a few of the knots, but I need more realistic practice if I'm going to remember the details.

Great thread! Man, you brought back some memories! Before I ever climbed rock, I was a surfer-- I grew up by the beach in San Diego, started surfing at age 9, could walk (a long way) to the beach, and started getting indoctrinated into the culture of localism the moment I arrived. I dreamed about being a climber, but couldn't walk or skateboard to any bouldering spots, and had to remain content taking my life in my hands on the crumbling shale bluffs above Blacks beach (I remember some really terrifying cliff-climbing incidents, including watching a friend who I had enticed up a "shortcut" slip at the crux and bounce fifty feet to the wave-washed rocks, fortunately without serious injury.) Although I agree with the parallels you draw between the two pursuits, I am relieved that climbers usually have a more benevolent attitude. It may not be that climbers are better human beings-- imagine if the best routes were only "in" for ten or twenty days a year, and if all climbers had only a ten-second window to get on the rock every hour. Climbers might not remain so civil to one another. I have pages more to say, but I'm at work and gotta go. You should write an article!

allison, don't let Trask get to you. Trask, I just blew the whistle on your post. Uh oh, you're in trouble now.

I've been up to Royal Basin once, up the Dose twice, Del Monte Ridge/ Mt. Mystery, all in midsummer, and I have had sunny days every time. I have had bad weather in Avalanche Canyon, but good weather there also. It's true that the "rain shadow" just lowers the precipitation, while the clouds remain-- Port Townsend apparently gets only 15 inches of precip. a year, but it's gray there almost all the time. No place in the Northwest is a sure thing for nice weather. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for Olympus on the 21st.

Thanks, that's just what I wanted to know. Now I just have to decide whether to spring for a pair of plastics as well as my tele boots, or trade in my tele gear completely. I must say I enjoy skinning up those long moderate slopes. Who has an opinion about split boards? (Or maybe I'll just start a whole new topic.)

That's exactly what I was wondering, but I don't know how to email him directly. Mike G, are you listening?

Hey you all, any opinions on what boots work best for backcountry snowboarding? I'm thinking I need to give tele skiing a break, after floundering on the steep part of the learning curve for a couple of seasons, and this year I plan to put the effort into snowboarding. I figure if I like it, I can incorporate the board into my climbing repertoire for long snow approaches. But in order for this to work, I'd have to either board in my climbing boots, or carry an extra pairof footwear(which I definitely want to avoid). I'm hoping that the experts at cc.com will tell me that boarding in your leather or plastic mountaineering boots is the way to go. Input, anyone?

When I talked to the rangers in July, wondering if I didn't need a permit to bivy on the north side of the Forbidden/Torment ridge, they said that a permit is required for the north side as well, and that they regularly cross over at Sharkfin Col to check on rogue permit-free parties. The ranger was happy to hike up to our bivy at the foot of the glacier beneath Forbidden's W. ridge, when we were a sight higher than most other parties, to make sure we were in compliance. But I doubt they'd be checking the north face of Torment, if you're inclined to dig out a flat spot at the top of the snowfield and bivy there. One spot I could see looked favorable for this in July-- not that that counts for much in September. In general I support the permit system (spray away), but if a party's using blue bags and bivying on snow or rock, what's the harm?

There's a small paperback from Chockstone Press/Falcon Guides called How to Build an Indoor Climbing Wall or something like that. I bought it before building a back yard play house for my kids, because I wanted at least two of the walls to be sturdy enough support holds and climbers. It's definitely worth buying the book if you plan to build anything. The most basic info you need for framing is to use 2 x 6's instead of 2 x 4's, and 3/4 inch plywood instead of 5/8 inch. If you plan to make any unusual shapes, the book has lots more detail about how to make sure the framing is beefy enough. Good luck!

Way to go, guys!! Wish I could have been there.

Anything over 50 miles would ensure that a lot of this event would take place at night. I think I'd rather find a shorter stretch that could be managed in 16 to 18 hours at a good pace. I'll have to look at the map. Maybe Stevens to the Kennedy Hot springs/Glacier Peak trailhead. But a lot of that is in the woods and would be less interesting. For any of you Olympic Mountains fans, we could consider a point to point across the range, such as up Enchanted Valley and down the Dosewallips (there's a problematic river crossing, since the bridge hasn't been replaced, plus the additional road miles because of the washout) or maybe up from the Elwha and down the Dungeness. This would not be too difficult to arrange logistically in terms of dropping off cars at trailheads, either. I'll dig up my trail guide and check it out.