Cairns

It's so area and even line dependent: if you disagree with that assessment I have a blackberry bush, 10" of loose dirt and rock covered, loose death block encrusted potential route I want to watch you try to get 10 feet up on. There is no visible cracks, but maybe......just maybe, you can dig something out. I'm not kidding. Top-down and ground-up approaches to climbing new routes rarely come into conflict, I think, in any serious way. The worst I can think of is when a poorly protected but otherwise good route is soloed and then someone else comes along and bolts it. That happened to a friend of mine who bolted (on lead) a Bachar solo at J Tree with no idea the route had been done. The conflict got resolved peaceably talking around a campfire. Mostly, though, the rap whatever versus risk ethic live in different neighborhoods and both schools produce good climbs.

I would've. On seeing the title Huge fall at Smith: first thought = hundreds of feet second thought = then it would have been "fatality at Smith"

partially detached ledge or was it partially attached?

Astrologger was clean, good, and safe. Sig Isaac led it. Getting to the start was tricky but that was years ago, maybe the trees have been turned into stairs. Alaska Highway has an undercling to start the second pitch but not much truly overhanging crack. Masotodon Roof I remember doing with Brian Povolny. It was a big roof with good protection. Spellbound I remember hanging by one hand jam towards the top while placing a cam and thinking it might have been better not to take the time. Overhanging corner cracks seem more common than cracks in overhanging faces. Did G-Spotter mention the Campground Wall climb (A Pitch in Time?). Shorter examples: brief bit on Whirlwind on the Apron, and Voodoo Amour. The first 3 moves of Perfidious Albion but they are more than enough. Has anyone done Crucifixion?

Hey, me, me! Yes, I've done Astrologger, Mastodon Roof, HPD, ROTC, Earwax, and What was the question?

HI, TRAIN!! Genocide basically means killing the members of a culture rather than the culture itself, although trying to deprive people of their culture is one of the more wishy-washy tactics sometimes employed by those suspected of harboring genocidal intentions. I would say so but with different spelling. You should step a little further back from the information explosion. I expect Tibet will be getting flying cars, soon?

meat department of the grocery store, once

Yes. I think Clyde Minaret should be probably be included on any definitive list of cool moderate climbs. Also, for diversity sake, some boulders.

another vote for Blouberg

That guy is extremely cool. Still wondering about how many climbers in 1000 or 1000000 would be "cool".

Okay, this discussion has taught me something about what "moderate" means. Now please tell me what "cool" is?

Nooo! Not my hero? How could he tarnish his brand? Or is there The Untold Story: US Effectiveness on the World Stage? Extreme Militarism Back in late 60s I heard a Green Beret/whitewater canoeist describe an excercise in rural New England where one team was the guerillas and the other team worked with local authorities. The guerilla team kidnapped the local sheriff. Great stuff but didn't turn the tide in SE Asia.

Andrew here. Chalk is good but you should only use it after having fallen off the move without it. Don't expect to see me taking my advice, though. And when sport climbing you can predict the fall and use the chalk in time-advance mode. But I will be doing the birdshit traverse, today. And on the subject of Beacon Rock:

Oh it is an April Fools joke either way, but seems more likely that it is a joke on April Fools jokes.

The route is nice. Rappel worked for us.

Trip: West Vancouver - the traverse Date: 2/24/2008 Trip Report: There were a horrible number of spiders. Therapy might uncover the buried details of the climb but who has the time or money? Here are the pictures. How can there be spiders in February? the North side of the traverse in summer February 24, 2008 North Middle South

Sorry for the spruhumm, er, meta-analysis, but this thread truly hits the cc.comer demographic target: an army marching on abandoned food, twist ties, laundry lint, and wearing aluminum foil hats. If the old is new again: in winter put your jacket at the bottom of your sleeping bag and put your feet in the shoulder sleeve holes.

Peanut butter, yes, leaving the camera I would only do where the survival chances on the route seem marginal. In your golden years you will want a visual of the way your partner's face looked when they broke that shoelace, or whatever. It is true, though, that actually climbing is a far better experience without a photographer in the party.

Maybe counter-intuitive but: if you have time to go climbing, don't worry about the weather forecast, just go. Wait til you get there for the next decision. To me, climbing isn't about getting stuff done so much as it is about the rare times when crazy ideas work out. A related tip: try the routes you haven't heard anything about.

You forgot the "Make your partner unwittingly" part Absolutely. The tip and the trick.

If we say that grades don't matter then we imply that difficulty doesn't matter or that it is impossible to estimate. To answer the larger question you would need to import climbers who haven't been to Squamish, Yos, Index, and send them up climbs without telling them the rating and then ask them to rank the routes' difficulty. Of course, ratings aren't always reliable. Red Nails at 11c would be more of a problem for most people than Ghostdancing at 11c/d. the 12b on fourth pitch of Daily Planet is soft compared to the 12b on Genius Loci. That was humor. The corner right of Kneewrecker is a harder 10c than Squamish Buttress 10c. However, my faith in inter-area grading is strong and rests solidly if irrationally on having been told that Serenity Crack had a crux "similar to the thin part of Exasperator" and not believing it but then finding it true. And I think the chimney start to Yosemite's Super Slide (5.8) is similar in difficulty to Clean Corner (5.8) at Squamish. But of course Yosemite has generally slicker granite. Too bad for them, except when it rains up here.

Carry 100% alcohol into the mountains to save weight.

So how does Crap Crags 5.7 compare to Clean Corner 5.8?