Rafael_H

If you have a week or more off anytime from now and on, let's go climbing. I like Smith but other not too distant areas can be considered. J-Tree (exception) - yes, yes, yes! Neither looking for nor willing to be a belay slave, just some cragging, gear or bolts, any difficulty. I have been climbing for 4 years and am a safe belayer. Rafael Haroutunian rafael@eastwestclinic.com

quote: Originally posted by lambone: Rafael- Just curious -What the heck are Napoleon Pockets???? Are they French or something? Like too small to be any good Have you seen the guy's pictures? Convenient side entry pockets wher the entry is close to the front opening and the storage is from your middle to the sides. Modern and often used design. But the pockets are actually double and have a conventional side entry too. Great for keeping lots of gloves if you like Gore-Tex. (!!!!!) Lambone, do you have a week or more off anytime from now and to the end of the year? (!!!!!!)

quote: Originally posted by Erwin: Hey, I'm looking for a pair of gore tex ... Rafael, let me know and I may want them. Erwin, I sent email to jason.erwin@ef.com. Rafael 425-821-5599

Moonstone Sauvage Gore-Tex jacket: pit zips, napoleon pockets, hood. Blue, large, no defects - $100 o.b.o. Moonstone Sauvage Gore-Tex pants, large, black - $80 obo North Face Windstopper vest: blue, large, no defects - $50 obo Rock shoes: - Five Ten Anasazi velcro, very little used, size 12 - $80 - La Sportiva Mistral, size 44.5 - $50

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: ... The CRUX of the bolt subject , as far as I see it this: Part of mountaineering and climbing for some people is adventure and figuring out on their own how to work with the rock to fight against gravity. A climber can choose how much beta they want; and therefore how much adventure they want to give up. But once a bolt is placed that part of adventure is gone forever and all those who follow will never be able to experience it. Even if most climbers will use and even appreciate a bolt next to a difficult to protect crack or one placed in between bolts that were placed by the first party; I think that it is terribly wrong to take away the possibility of exploration and adventure from all of thos who might follow. No one has the right to climb a route, they have to earn the ability. No one has the right to take the adventure out of climbing for all those who may want to follow. "I don't care if the rotary club climbs Everest all sucking O's through houka pipes connected to a giant tank at base camp; as long as they leave the mountain the way they found it"...Chounard Congrats, Gravity, good first cut (there I go again, sounding condescending. I AM not!) Just compare carefully your paragraph to Chounard's quote. If you consiously climb for the achievement of it (poor english?), for your own accomplishment, to challenge y o u r s e l f and win (which is why I believe we all climb, knowingly or not), then why do bolts matter? You can forget about them, skip some, solo. What if some Bob Jones soloed all the 5.15's in the world, face and crack, then tried to make a cause that cracks are cheating because you can put pro? Intact, you say? Well, if you stand behind everything you said before [the paragraph above] then the impact is not in bolting, is it? Oxygen bottles and shit left all over are different from bolts. I almost broke up with my good friend (basically gave him my last "warning") when he admitted to tossing a shit-bag from a wall. Chipping and drilling is a very different story and the issue should only be approached with a super-cool head. We certainly should if not to avoid then keep "Vantage-like" bolting to the bare minimum. I don't think it is grid-bolted but is closer to than anything I've ever seen before. So by excercising restraint we will avoid somebody putting 10 closely bolted routes 6 feet apart from each other. I don't see Leavenworth being anywhere(!) near that situation. I haven't yet seen the climb Retrosaurus mentioned and believe that Leavenworth is definitely not the place to bolt any route protectable by "natural pro". Yet there are some sensible standards, measures by which we choose to protect a route. Is a rap anchor 30' above the ground sensible pro? Has anyone climbed it like that?(!) If no then let's not arm up against putting the old/stolen/back-cleaned pro back and bolt is not a bad candidate. What do you think? Chocolate, you shine again [This message has been edited by Rafael H (edited 10-11-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: ... Right on, "Peter". Amen. That's what I was leading to. I was thinking of providing a basis for discussing "unjustly" bolted routes and quietly suspecting that there won't be many. Even with Vantage it turned out to be virtually non-issue! So I'd like to ask everybody if it is OK to drop the bolting issue, even for fun, for a while but keep a vigilant eye, of course. I suggest it is still appropriate to discuss how the routes are bolted because it may help to keep the bolting standard uniform throughout the state. Like at Smith, in my opinion, they've got it quite right and consistent. Hey, Nuts-y, is there a jar at Redpoint for donations? (Haven't been there this autumn yet). And thank you.

Great question, I am interested too. What does your current pack weigh and on which trips?

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Why? OK, don't. Which ones? How many?

NO, NOT A DE-BOLTING LIST. I am trying to find out how much of a problem bolting of cracks is. All throughout many posts there is constant ranting about it, just look 2 posts above. And what, just 2 routes?!!! Bolting is a complex and sensitive issue and I just wanted to help weed out the noisy and unconstructive loud-mouths. (Lucky, why can't people just read more than first 2 letters of the first sentence I am neither pro- nor anti-, just love climbing, all of it.)

1. Amphetamines and Reptiles 2. Gorilla my Dreams 3. ? is this all?

quote: Originally posted by quikclimber: ive been climbing sport for way to long... WA weather is getting really bad, so you have the whole winter to accumulate gear, learn basic anchors, it is not a rocket science, and play with gear placements at Smith. I think you can climb the Pack Animal entirely on nuts, hang on them too. I think it only take some common sense to see how the gear works. Other than that you already know the rest. Just remember that most (what people call) "trad" climbs are cracks so get comfortable with jamming - Karate Crack, Lion's Chair and... don't remember any offwidth at Smith but down in the Lower Gorge. Contact me, maybe we can hook up for Index on Tuesday? rafael@eastwestclinic.com

quote: Originally posted by ScottP: OK, good, just keep it coming, no sense scrutinizing individually because of geom progression of diff threads. Let's get 10. Thanks. (nuts-..., this will keep the topic alive for longer and your inital msg is first) [This message has been edited by Rafael H (edited 10-08-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by nuts_n_screws: Dear anti boltheads... I haven't seen unnecessarily bolted or unjustifiably bolted climbs yet, or maybe less than a handful I cannot even recall. That's why I realy wanted to know what are they trying to fight, ghosts? Sorry to support digression.

List bolted cracks. Those that were climbed without (pre-placed) pitons, and then later pitons removed or stolen. List "unnecessarily" bolted you can actually climb! But don't digress into unnecessary flaming, give us the list, hopefully some will be in WA.

Just read the thread from the beginning. It is easy to see that those calling themselves "trad climbers" are 1. In minority. C'mon people, why so much attention to pope, retrosaurus and officespace? They do need to identify themselves somehow and chose this "trad" thing. So are Godzilla, Exasperator or Double Cross, etc. "trad" climbs and Wham, Loose Lady, Heinous Cling, etc "sport"? What about the Grand Wall? Maybe there is no such distinction after all. It is like comparing thin crack to offwidth or edges to pockets. One can die on any route if not skilled enough to deal with the situation at hand. I think (and repeat many sound heads on the board) the distinction is probably in the commitment level. Easy walk up, a row of routes to choose from, easy to bail out (yes, Outer Space, Serenity Crack and Grand Wall qualify) - sounds like sport to me. 2. Are very close minded and perhaps even worse. I loved chocolate's post, but man, it was apparently too subtle (hee-hee). And pope's (pathetic) essay can't reveal any more inexperience, close-mindedness and lack of vision. (Please, pope, don't tell me about the decades of climbing, it obviously reached your climax years ago). "Old timer" is a bad term, I recently tried to call Pope's old timers and one known "old timer" was offended by such generalization (sorry!) so I had to make a further distinction to ones with and without brains. There are hard-core people who climbed hard then and climb hard now, bolts, gear or alpine (and please, NR of Stuart does not qualify unless you do it in 6 hrs car to car). 3. Mostly poor climbers that are too lazy to improve. Those new to climbing, all you have to do is to go climbing more often to Index, Smith, big sport places and the gyms (no typo) that attract large number of people and communicate with g o o d climbers, learn from their attitudes. Forget the sport/trad thing. All .12-.13 climbers I have met so far are most often doing all these things with equal love and ability. If someone onsights 12 face but flails on a 5.9 crack that is merely because they don't climb cracks often. Means just that. They may not like it, never thought of it, 1000's of things. And yes, some, few, may be afraid of gear climbs. No reason to categorize and antagonize ourselves. "Place the pro on lead" - again, it has been said already, only matters to the first ascensionist and I don't mind having large faces bolted because climbing them is fun and a great school. Finally, bolting proper. The issue surely does exist: yes or no, spacing, environmental impact. Radicals do exist, have their place and are even necessary at times. Just remember, they must be identified and understood as such!!! (Osama guy, eco-terrorists, anti-abortion crowd, etc. Hey, Pope, can I call you a micro- or nano- Osama? ) I, again, agree that approach, cleaning and subsequent tree mutilation from just climbing are so much more obvious and severe impacts. Was scoping routes on Goat Dome and if the route is not climbed often and overgrown it is not at all easy to spot the bolts. So, what's the point? I remember someone on the board asking how they'd be judged by the crowd. Well, this is why I am writing, the crowd is not the ones who shout loudest. Go ahead, participate, let's see if this is the fireplace where capable don't have to prove themselves any other way but by climbing, where reason and honest discussion do help build a community whose voice matters, where beta is not considered spray and.. . on and on. My 23 roubles.

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Maybe we could get a fund together to help pay for the cost of chopping bolts near cracks in trad climbing areas. Oh no not another bolt topic! [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-08-2001).] OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone.

I weighed M10 and Rambo regular myself, pair of M10 is half a pound heavier. I found that it is easier to stand on mixed terrain with Rambo Comps.

Yeah, so many people pay to avoid the harassment. It'd be really great if we all wrote letters AND didn't buy AND parked elsewhere, at least till they come up with some creepy shit to ticket you on the roadside... Please show the opposition, reduce the $$$ in "pass coffers".

Knifeblades - most likely a face climb/section. Keep it that way by bolting where the blades were. Go out of our way to contact the FA/FFA-ists to get permission/advice. It is possible that knifeblades can be hand-placed but will hold falls. If the rest of the climb is gear and knifeblades are solid when hand-placed then better to inform the local community/guidebooks and add KB's to the rack. Re: willstrickland - great comments.

Hey, nolanr, have you climbed that mountain, what's the name of it, uh, heck, the big one, you know, with snow, one can see it sometimes when driving I-5 south to Smith Rocks? I want to climb it but which way is the best? Thanks.

Finished it yesterday. Powerfull! Inspiring!! Excellent!!! Don't expect a conventional stile and just keep on reading. I feel much closer to Mark now and am totally inspired. Carry your own torch!

From the pocket glacier the lower portion looked OK, I saw the pitches shown on http://naclassics.com/climbs/slessemt/beta.htm. I didn't do my homework (and, quite frankly think the Alpine Guide is very imprecise on the approach) so we lost 2 hours in the morning, direct start was out. I think it is not long and worth doing as it had the only actually crag climbing looking pitches. I consider the rest of the NE Butress a choss pile I will never go back to. The last pitch or two don't even seem to be climbed, apparently most take the 4-th class bypass. As we simul-climbed I neither looked carefully nor have a sense for the pitch breakdown, just one big non-stop jug pull. Per Dale's suggestion we stayed as close to the crest as possible. There is a red Metolius - very good shape - stuck there but I couldn't take it out, it'll come out with a nut tool, it's moving but would take more than 5 minutes, so we left it alone. West side descend, ha-ha, just as Caveman said, either know it well or take the Borbon Express Downslide Southwest variation, it is fuuuun!

I used footbeds with La Sportiva Makalu, La sportiva Trango Plus, Technica and even Scarpa Inverno boots. In ALL cases I kept having blisters about one year after started climbing in 1997. One day I had this feeling that I should just try the factory liners. No more blisters ever since. Go figure. The only problem remaining is after a long hike/scramble/climb in any shoe the bottoms of big toes hurt.

Heh, I recently linked the last 3 pitches of Exasperator so now it goes in only 8!

Besides, I just sold my last pink thong...