Jim

Not to beat a dead horse, or a dying one - but there was a very illustrative article on this topic in the NYT on Sunday: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/us/politics/05states.html?_r=2&hp It clearly shows that, fiscal crisis or not, changes were needed in the state and local ponzi scheme of pension funding. It's just not sustainable. It's not a blame game - just common sense.

I'll take that as a "I have no constructive opinion but will wail about the outcome" response.

That's a non-answer. While you are making a link betweent he Feds and State, which the state does get federal money, what is your proposal for cutting the 20%+ (ok, 18% plus $1.7 billion in pension deficits) for the next two year cycle. You can keep jumping up and down about a federal link but the state still has to come up with a balanced budget. Are you proposing a second stimulus to fill the gap? Highly unlikely and will be a temporary fix. How will you address the underfunded pension programs and lack of revenue? Got news for you - things will get better but they ain't going back to boom bubble time again. So if you have anything practical let me know.

You understand that the Republican House hasn't even been seated yet, don't you? The lame-duck D's are still free to do whatever they want. All that stands in their way right now is common sense. Nice to see a few of 'em still have it. Yea constaructive guys those Repubs, not going to let any bills move in the Senate unless ALL Bush tax cuts are renewed including those for the rich - idiots: WASHINGTON -- The entire Republican Senate caucus has signed a letter to Majority Leader Harry Reid, informing him that they will filibuster any legislative measure that comes before the Senate prior to the body considering a budget or tax cut legislation The Associated Press first reported the letter last night. But on Wednesday morning Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's office passed a copy on to reporters, showing that he had secured signatures from every Senate Republican. "[W]e write to inform you that we will not agree to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed to any legislative item until the Senate has acted to fund the government and we have prevented the tax increase that is currently awaiting all American taxpayers," the letter reads. "With little time left in this Congressional session, legislative scheduling should be focused on these critical priorities. While there are other items that might ultimately be worthy of the Senate's attention, we cannot agree to prioritize any matters above the critical issues of funding the government and preventing a job-killing tax hike." The maneuver comes, notably, just hours after congressional leadership met with President Barack Obama in an effort to chart out how to work in a bipartisan fashion. It also dropped on the same day that a bipartisan group of lawmakers was set to meet with the Secretary of the Treasury and head of the Office of Management and Budget to discuss a resolution to the tax cut debate. Pointing to the latter, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) took the floor on Wednesday to condemn, what he called, a "cynical" tactic to delay legislative progress. Democrats have been planning to deal with immigration reform and the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell legislation during the lame duck session. A continuing resolution for the budget was on the docket, as was one for tax cuts. But there was no sense about prioritizing those two before the former measures.

Not to give any credibility to the storyline that austerity is the way out of this economic mayhem. You have a choice: stand with a) JayB and Obama and his catfood commission or with b) Robert Reich (for example) Great summary of the federal issue. Now tell me exactly what you propose to do regarding the state and local level. You criticize my assessment, which is to make some changes to the unsustainable structure - underfunded pensions, reduce benefits, and get rid of automatic yearly pay raisies (not COLA) and then provide me a bunch of arm waving concerning the federal government. Take a look at the link that Tvash provide - What exactly do you propose? The voters reject tax increases - what is the option? What do we do NOW to address the state's two year budget cycle - address some of the structural unstuainable elements or keep cutting things like health care to the poor? I'd like some specifics.

The Left equivalent of overpaid bus drivers, welfare queens, and anchor babies? You already offered an excellent suggestion: universal healthcare. None of these problems is going to get solved at the local level and certainly not by making more people miserable. Time to start thinking bigger again. Great. In the meantime what are you suggesting the local jusrisdictions and states do? Any alternative to getting their fiscal house in order is cutting services.

The fical crisis has exacerbated some existing fiscal unsustainable issues with state and local governments. Shit - if your pension plans were not funded properly in flush times they ain't going to be during this cycle. Sorry, but the basic concept of not spending more than you have, and actually planning for it is preferable, and more sustainable for all services than burying your head in the sand and making believe it will go away if we only complain more about the plurocrats, oligarcy, or the Masons. Given that the voters have turned down and repealed recent tax proposals - what are you suggesting?

You must be a regressive corporate shill!! You and your ilk's risky Monte Carlo schemes! While I agree that the cause of the recent downturn was due to the financial sector waving their arms around and stuffing their pockets while we suffered; we still have to deal with the outfall on the state and local scale. And I would much rather see structural changes made than having services cut back. Prole's example is a good one - how about we make some of the structural changes rather than cut the legs off of the underprivileged by eliminating their health care?

Oh come on already. Here's a couple of specific examples. Changes to pension plans: WA is better than most states but their pension plan is still underfunded. These rising costs will eventually cut into services including environmental, health, and social services - I'd rather see the structural issues dealt with then see these services cut. How about you? Just go along merrily and pretend we do not have under funded obligations with unfunded COLA passed recently without any revenue behind it? Move towards 401k employee funded programs and get out of the pension business. Second- do away with annual step pay increases, but keep COLAs. Most state and local jobs have annual salary increases, on top of COLA. Why is this? You get more pay for just hanging around? These annual pay increases are in addition to merit pay increases. They should be eliminated. Third - increase requirements for employee contributions to their medical plans. Look at King County's plan - employees pay a minimal amount - this needs to be brought up to private sector rates. Yea, our medical system sucks - but while we're waiting around for universal care why should the public be on the hook, especially in economic times like now, for providing for more generous plans than they can get themselves. It's an issue of equity.

The solutions you propose ought to necessarily depend on the nature of the systemic failure. For example, you are not suggesting to gut or privatize SS like the nutjobs do because SS is mostly sound (among the most successful program ever). You are free to try to make neat little divisions between federal and state levels but count me out because state finances are strongly dependent on federal programs and subsidies, especially during economic hard times. We'll have to cut outlay in the immediate future but no permanent restructuring should occur without the tax structure (including tax evasion) and the military budget also being on the line. You may not want to make distinctions between the feds and the state - but reality will do that for you. The states cannot operate with a deficit, the feds have that luxury, or curse, depending on your viewpoint. I agree that the tax structure and scaling back on our military budget, way back, is needed if we are going to address our pressing needs. I'm about as confident that this will happen anytime soon as I am that state and local governments will make similar changes to structurally unsustainable fiscal pracitices.

Ditto on free weights and multi-movements, but stretching is important. I had some shoulder over-use issues about 15 yrs ago and went into the PT. She asked if I streched and I said yes, every day. Arms and shoulders - I was like - what? Here's and exercise to try. Place your arms behind your back and intertwine your fingers, palms facing out, thumbs up. Now rotate your thumbs toward your back and keep going. Back then I didn't get far and the PT said it was an indication of "tight' shoulders. Now I can rotate all the way thru so my palms are facing back out again, thumbs up, arms extended. Have had no recurrent shoulder issues.

Amazing. How is this in the public's interest? You also have to ask why these idiots got elected by the public - the only logical answer appears to be stupidity.

Here's how I see it. While the financial wizards and lack of government oversight caused the meltdown - it really doesn't matter for the states what the cause was - they have to deal with the results, and that is significantly less revenue. What do you do when revenue falls? You cut back outlays because you are mandated to have a balanced budget. WA for example, needs to cut back 18%, in addition to the existing cuts, from their coming 2 yr budget cycle. And that doesn't include the 1.8 billion (yes a B) that the pension task force is recommending the legislature add to shore up the pension system (which is in better shape than most states). So if you're not going to consider things such as having state employee's pay for health care on par with the private system and cancel automatic yearly pay raises (not COLA - that's something else) then there will be even more drastic cuts to services. Not much choice on the state level. On the federal level there is more room to move. Unemployment needs to be extended - what's the choice? And a second stimulus is needed - a public works program would be the best to address our ailing infrastructure. And the Bush tax cuts, all of them, need to expire. What? We can fight two wars for free or something? This would be a start, the larger structural changes are more challenging and likely will be ignored. Unfortunately I'm not optimistic that the Republicans will even consider the modest steps for fiscal sanity as they are too busy posturing for 2012.

You think so? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I give TTK and Nitrox, and especially FW, a hard time for generally being greedy, stuck-up white-bread conservative mouthpieces intent on running cyclists down. Exhibit B .

Well these folks don't seem to be short on cash nor have many of them missed a meal recently.

Is he supposed to edit me or visa versa?

For once I agree with OW. Let it expire for everyone. As for the poor, well, the bottom 40% of wage earners in the US don't pay any federal income tax as it now stands--and they'll continue to get the same sweet deal. Shoot. I think we have a quorum on this one!

TGIF

Switching to the state side; I saw the latest budget predictions that put the coming two-year budget cycle at a stunning 18% over budget. That is pretty grim.

While I have some sympathy, I expect, well, leadership out of our leaders. Now cowering sheep.

Over 2,400 folks earned greater than $100k last year on the Seattle payroll. Just sayin'

....Wait, half a wit libturds and democrap deniers like Pat are still blaming all this on Bush.....right? No need now for an alternative version that might shake them up. Still Bush's fault. Nothing to see here. Same-same as it's ever been with an extra slice of hope and change and this time we mean that last part. Correct you are. Reps - dumbshits, Dems -chickenshits.

Thanks - great trip. Please parse out the other photos to beat the dreary season. I'd love to get back there - spent three weeks there and consider it the recon trip. My wife even loved the climbing. Will hit you up for advice.

WTF? Seems we are wining the race to the bottom of any category you wish to choose. It's not anti-intellectualism, it's anti-common sense. Somehow the conservataive movement has determined that the proper course is to send truckloads of cash down the military rathole as the rationale choice for defending our country, rather than building up the skills, education, and technology that will be needed in coming decades to successfully compete in the changing world economy. Go teabaggers!