klenke

We took 3 years to join in on WW2 because we couldn't get UN Security Council approval to do so.

I had some good viewing from Queen Anne last night while watching Conan. I'd stick my head out the window periodically. The cloud seemed to be stationary over the range of mountains between Mt. Si and Mt. Index. It may have been slowly moving south or southwest. We may very well have a repeat performance tonight and this weekend. Conditions are still primed for it...which is partially why I changed my plans to merely day-climb tomorrow. Nice pictures, guys. Ah, the power of digital cameras with video capabilities!

Note that the word sketched contains your name within it. Nope, I don't think I'll waste my time climbing with you.

Alex is about right. 20 miles on Suiattle River Road at 30 MPH (40 minutes), 11 miles to Rockport at 60 MPH (11 minutes), 7 miles to Marblemount at 50 MPH (8 minutes), then 22 miles to Cascade Pass Trailhead at 30 MPH (44 minutes). Add that up and you get 60 miles in 103 minutes (35 MPH average) between the two points. Multiplying that by two: 206 minutes . However, there is the additional time of stopping at the ranger station, hitting the head, slacking off, changing the flat, chasing the snaffles out of your car, etc. that will add to the total time. All told, it will take you about 3 hours OF DRIVING depending on how crazy a driver you are.

Nah, I think it's tinsel falling out of Santa's big gift bag on Christmas Eve.

And that, folks, is why ketch is on the lam hiding out in the San Juans. Did I say San Juans? I meant Astoria. Yeah Astoria. That's where he said he was living.

Speaking of don't: don't ever climb Mt. St. Helens in late summer.

I should add that some of the worst rock to climb on is Glacier Peak pumice. Man I hate that stuff. It's like trying to walk up a sand dune.

Been here before with this topic. It's still Mt. Custer for me, followed by McShitty Peak (Mesahchie Peak).

As promised, here are a slew of photos for your viewing pleasure: Buck Mountain from Carne Mountain Trail (wide shot) Buck Mountain from Carne Mountain Trail (close up) Ice Creek Ridge Panorama from Carne Mountain (annotated) Phelps Creek valley from Carne Mountain (gives good idea of snow levels) Mt. Maude from Carne Mountain Carne Mountain from the NE Pt. 7800+ from the north Icebox from the south Mt. Maude from Icebox Maude and Ice Lakes from Icebox Spectacle Buttes from Icebox Pinnacle Mountain from Icebox Ice Creek Ridge from Icebox Ice Creek Ridge from Pt. 7919 (annotated) Chilly Peak from Pt. 7919

Good job posting in the Beasties thread at 4:20, Scott. Cheeba --> one of Abednego's, I mean Mike D's, favorite things.

Yeah, that is kind of funny isn't it. Paul's Boutique was one of the first CDs I ever bought back in the early 90's (probably 1990). The tape version was stolen with the rest. I just had to replace the album featuring my name, now didn't I? As for Straight Outta Compton, I think the only reason I have that one is because it wasn't in my tape storage box in my car when the box was stolen. Easy E and Dr. Dre and company were saved! Nolse, my friend James used to have the Beastie's pre-rap album called "Pollywog Stew" or whatever it was called. Does that ring a bell?

Like Double_E, we too listened to Licensed to Ill all the time while cruising around in my hooptie (a hooptie I still have). Over and over the tape would play. We knew practically every lyric to every song. "You got the bottle, we got the cup. Come on everybody let's... Brass Monkey! That funky monkey Brass Monkey junkie. That funky monkey!" Then, when my friend James and I heard the new album was coming out ("Paul's Boutique") we made sure to arrive at the mall music store when they first opened expecting a big waiting line to purchase the album. There was no line at all. Doh! Buying the album was as easy as eggin' the eggman. Later, all my rap tapes were stolen while in college and I haven't really listened to rap since. I have NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" on tape and "Paul's Boutique" on CD. That's the extent of my rap library now. I use to have so many more. I just grew out of the music genre, I guess.

Steve: you can drive all the way to the trailhead no problem. There is rutting I hadn't seen before but it is completely manageable for a lower clearance vehicle. The trailhead is at c. 3,500 ft. I didn't even hit snow until over 6,000 ft. No worries. There doesn't appear to be any snow in Phelps Creek all the way to Spider Meadow and beyond. You have to get out of the valleys to encounter snow. For example, the Ice Lakes area south of Mt. Maude is still quite snowbound.

It's not far from bridge to T.H., not far enough to worry about. In the above picture, note that the person is standing on the bridge and that it is washed out (broken) on its west end. For that person to have got there they must have been able to scramble onto the bridge (probably from the railing area on the right) because I doubt they waded the creek first.

Take your skateboard and ride that rail!!! Yeah baby!

Re: Kyle Yes. But you'll have to climb up and over Phelps Ridge. There is a Phelps Ridge High Route or it might be called Red Mountain High Route that supposedly leaves the Phelps Creek Trail and climbs NW over Phelps Ridge to the other side. I think it climbs to the saddle south of Red Mountain. You can also climb up the trail to the Spider Glacier from Spider Meadow then scramble talus/scree up and over the ridge north of Red Mountain. Completing Chiwawa via its East Ridge could be problematic but going up the southeast slope looked feasible. The standard/easy route up Chiwawa is via the South Ridge. From the Carne Mountain High Route, which skirts below the west side of Ice Creek Ridge west of Icebox (Pk 8112), you can get into the Leroy Creek drainage then take the Leroy Creek Trail down to the Phelps Creek Trail. From that junction, it would probably then be easier to get to Chiwawa via the Spider Glacier route previously described. Fortress can be climbed from the east side via the East Ridge. The crux is a 10-ft Class 4 chimney. Rest is Class 3. In terms of a loop trip car-to-car, you would have to walk back up the Phelps Creek Trail Road from Chiwawa River Road. The junction is south of Trinity by about a mile. I walked up PCTR once and it wasn't fun (it's about 2 miles and 700' of gain). If you had two cars, though... A better alternative would be to climb Dumbell Mountain and Greenwood Mountain (NE Dumbell) at the head of Phelps Creek. These two peaks are as high as Chiwawa and just as technically interesting. If you did Dumb and Green instead, you could just walk the Phelps Creek Trail back to the car.

You're right. That's why I put "max" in parentheses. That's the longest it would take. But then... It may be only two miles (the first mile is downhill to Thornton Creek, the second mile is uphill), but it seemed to take an hour for us with heavy packs. That's two hours going both ways. If you could bike twice as fast then you could possibly save an hour. Yet, all those temporary stops to push your bike through the unridable water bars will slow you down.

Yes, another Klenke trip report full of longueurs. If you don't want to read it: don't. Climb: Ice Creek Ridge--Icebox and Chilly Peak (by way of Carne Mountain) Date of Climb: 6/13/2004 Trip Report: Well, it seemed only appropriate that I should climb on Ice Creek Ridge on a snowy, chilly day.... MORE PICTURES TO BE PROVIDED IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE BUT RIGHT NOW HERE ARE THREE: Ice Creek Ridge from the east I Ice Creek Ridge from the east II Ice Creek Ridge from the north My initial plan was to climb Chiwawa Mountain from a car camp at Trinity but the ceaseless rainfall through the night washed that plan into nature's sewer. That is because I had intended to bike the trail as far was possible. I knew the wet trail would result in a lot of spin outs for my bike's semi-slicks. I needed a secondary plan. The weather was cold and showery (raining lightly down at 3,000 ft) so I decided to head up the Carne Mountain Trail, which junctions not far from the Phelps Creek Trailhead (c. 3,500 ft). I didn't even have a map. I figured the trail would go close to the peak then I would climb whatever looked to be the highest point in the area. The trail takes 3.5 miles to ascend to the 6,300-ft saddle closely south of the summit. At 3.0 miles I left the trail at a nice meadow (c. 6,140 ft) and beared upslope to the NE then to the east up Carne's west ridge. I located Carne's 7,080+ ft summit rather quickly (130 minutes from the car) and wondered what I would do next since it was only 11:00AM. I thought about taking the vanishing trail over to Old Gib Mountain to the south but after seeing how far away it was and what beckoned to Carne's east, I 86'ed the old Gibster. To the northeast, running roughly in a high north-south alignment, was Ice Creek Ridge looking oh so close. Furthermore, a nice high connecting ridge (the divide between Rock Creek and Box Creek) led to it from Carne. Wow! It looks so near, so accessible. Here's your opportunity to climb on this often forgotten but nonetheless high and important ridge, I said to myself. It seems like I'd never purposely set out to climb this ridge but when an on-site Plan B needs to be hatched, it is there for the bagging. I knew from memory there were two "peaks" (points with >400P) on the ridge. One is unofficially called "Icebox" and is 8,112 ft. It is at the north end of the ridge closely south of Mt. Maude. Icebox is among the Top 200 highest peaks in the state. Near the south end of the ridge is "Chilly Peak" (Pk 7960+) whose nomenclature, according to John Roper, goes with Carne Mountain. That is, as Azteca's would be proud to endorse, you've got Chilly con Carne (con means "with" in Spanish). Do you see the tasty burrito connection? Anyway... I wasn't positive which peak was Chilly. I had a fair idea that the peak I was seeing to the N was Icebox. From the Carne angle, it looked like a diminutive version of Maude, which loomed to Icebox's left. No technical difficulties appeared to guard Icebox. I surmised that someone had left the Icebox open (perhaps this is why it was so cold out) so it was there to be climbed into and up. I debated how to climb it. Should I climb up through the ice maker? Or perhaps backdoor it by way of the compressor? I eventually decided to take the ridge from Carne all the way up to the high point it connects with on Ice Creek Ridge. This high point is Pt. 7800+ and is 1 mile NNE of Carne. I reached it in about an hour. There were no real technical difficulties getting to this point but the fresh smattering of snow on the ground and the driving snow passing through in a shower made things a little more interesting. The ridge was living up to its gelid name. Moreover, I couldn't see a darned thing in the whiteout. It was like a darned white T-shirt had been draped over my eyes. The traverse north along the ridge was mostly Class 3 but with enough dicey Class 4 moves (during upclimbing, downclimbing, and contouring) to make it interesting. The dampness didn't help. I either stayed on the ridge or skirted gendarmes on its west side (the east side is precipitous). At about halfway I came upon a deep cave. It looked like a mine shaft but there was no tell-tale tailings pile. It went in and down slightly under a fault in a crag for about 100 ft. I peered into its depths and was momentarily startled by a brown mass on the left. I flinched thinking it a bear but it was only a brown wall. All looked well at the 7,600-ft saddle immediately south of Icebox but the Glacier Peak pumice took a lot out of me with its standard "two steps forward, one step back" punishment. It was easier to stay on the snowpatches. The summit of Icebox provided great views--especially of Maude and the Spectacle Buttes. There was a cairn at the summit but no register. On the way over to Icebox I had spied a great snow-covered basin on the east side of Pt. 7800+. I knew that if I could get down onto the snow there, I could traverse that basin over to Chilly Peak, which peeked from over the top of Pt. 7919. If I couldn't get onto that snowfield, I probably couldn't manage Chilly in the 6-7 remaining hours of daylight because it meant I'd have to traverse all the way around the corner of the west side of Pt. 7800+. That did not appeal to me. Luckily, I observed a possible Class 3 downclimb off the ridge to get to the snowy basin. This place on the ridge was about halfway between Pt. 7800+ and Icebox. With mostly Class 3 and two moderate Class 4 downclimbs including a squeeze under a big ex-cornice block ready to peel off at any moment (yikes!), I managed to get to a snowfield tongue and subsequently down to the basin. It was the first time I used my ice axe. The low point of the traverse was about 7,300 ft. I took the snow all the way up to the broad 7,440+ ft saddle between Pt. 7800+ and Pt. 7919. I next ascended up and over Pt. 7919 with the stiffening wind pushing me on. Upon reaching that point I got my first unobstructed view of what it would take to get to Chilly Peak. And the answer was: nothing more than a snow traverse. Woohoo! Good to go. The snow contour was steeper than I had anticipated. The cool temperatures meant I was not sinking in for stability. However, this was also to my benefit as it meant that plunging through was at a minimum. In short, it was an excellent day weatherwise to be climbing on Ice Creek Ridge. Plus, in looking to the west, it seemed I was just beyond (east of) the wall of weather that seemed to stop at Buck Mountain and periodically blow pathetic snow showers my way. If I had done Chiwawa after all, I would have been in the thick of it (I never did see the top of Fortress Mountain and only saw Buck's summit once earlier from the trail). The final Class-3 scramble to Chilly Peak's top entailed more damp rock but it otherwise put up no defense. Another cairn, another lack of register, another set of good views--this time to Spectacle Buttes, Pinnacle Mountain, and peaks of the Cardinal Peak group. Instead of going back up and over Pts. 7919 and 7800+, I chose to descend obliquely below these until I arrived at the connecting ridge between Pt. 7800+ and Carne Mountain. Then, instead of going back over Carne (would require a 400 ft snow climb), I chose to take the trail (Carne Mountain High Route/Rock Creek Trail) that streaks through this area to the 6,800-ft pass immediately south of Carne. From there only knee-jarring trail action remained to get back to the car. Some data Total distance traveled: 3 miles of trail + 3.5 miles over Carne to Icebox + 1.5 miles from Icebox to Chilly + 2.5 miles from Chilly to trail + 3 miles of trail = 13.5 miles roundtrip Total elevation gain: (7,080 - 3,500) + (7,800 - 6,600) + (8,112 - 7,600 + 200 gendarme skirting) + (7,919 - 7,300) + (7,960 - 7,700) + (6,800 - 6,500) = 6,700 ft Total time: 10 hours, 45 minutes roundtrip (9:00AM to 7:45PM) Recommendations Ice Creek Ridge is readily accessible from Carne Mountain and the Carne Mountain Trail. If you desire to bag Chilly Peak and Icebox, you could probably do so quicker than me because I didn't take the most efficient route. My suggestion would be to climb Chilly Peak (Pk 7960+) first, then take the eastside snow basin (talus later in the year?) below Pt. 7800+ in order to see where you would need to go to climb back up onto the ridge in the easiest manner possible, then north up the easy south slopes of Icebox. From Icebox contour SSW about 1,000 feet below Pt. 7800+ (it is not necessary to climb 7800+ unless you really want to) to get back to the connecting ridge from Carne. Gear Notes Ice Axe, crampons only if really cold/icy. This is a scrambling ridge that is mostly Class 3. Class 4 lurks and Class 5 is there if you screw up, but you won't really need technical gear. There did seem to be plenty of running water but there were also lots of marmots running about. As such, beware of contamination issues. You might wish to bring iodine tablets or a lightweight filter if you plan on refilling. Approach Notes: Take the Chiwawa River Road to the Phelps Creek Road thence to the trailhead (3,500 ft). Hike Phelps Creek Trail for about a quarter-mile to the junction with the Carne Mountain Trail.

I remember reading a park bulletin saying there had been much windfall damage on the road/trail (the trail starts out as a road). You might want to call the Marblemount R.S. about this. If there is no windfall on the trail, then you can bike the road/trail for about 2 miles to the point where it leaves the old road and begins going steeply through the woods. There are water bars and ditches across the road/trail at a frequent enough duration to at least be exasperating because not all are ridable. All told (not including windfall considerations), it would be quicker to use a bike. How much quicker? I'll say 1 hour (max).

This Paccar job that I was offered/will be working concerns this very thing in regard to the diesel trucking industry. Apparently, in 2007, stricter emissions requirements will take effect. The plan is to use exhaust recirculation to raise the temperature of combustion or something like that as a means to reduce NOx emissions. This will in turn require better front end (radiator) cooling systems than are currently available. This is where my expertise comes in for Paccar. There is another requirement that's supposed to take effect in 2010. I can't remember what that one is.

Semantics. Who cares. Insider trading of the illegal sort is illegal. Insider trading of the legal sort is legal. Nuff said. One bush, beaten, all sides.

Ken: both are relevant here. Well last night was pretty fun. My friend Mike joined me and Thinker was there too still recovering from a drink sesh the night before. As per usual, there were plenty of pretty ladies at Peso's. That place never seems to fail in that regard. After my compatriots left I joined up with this foursome (three gals and a guy) and we moved over to the Mirabeau Room (sp?). Mirabeau, on lower Queen Anne, just opened three months ago. It's a dance club. Good to see I've still got some hip moves.

But how do you know (in real time) that a CEO or other insider is selling at the time a stock is going down? How do you know it is not just external market forces? It's okay to make inferences on available data. This is the skill statement in the above exerpt. But how can someone draw inferences from data unknown to them, data that is only available to the privileged few (the insiders)? If the privileged few have secret data, act on it in real time (sell before an impending loss that occurs in real time), then this ought to be illegal. The difficulty is obviously proving that the data was indeed secret. That's why a lot of insider trading incidences are hard to prove. I think the key is in the last sentence: "This is not only unfair but disruptive to a properly-functioning market: if insider trading were allowed, investors would lose confidence in their disadvantaged position (in comparison to insiders) and would no longer invest."

jjd: Here is just one description of insider trading and why it is illegal. There are many examples. (Illegal) insider trading is bad for the ordinary investors among us. Period. It may be good for those in the know (CEOs, etc.) but it's bad for people like me who buy public stock. I ought to be able to know what the CEO knows. And if I don't know it, he must tell me. He can't have an advantage over me. This is what is called transparency. It is not translucency or opacity. Excerpt from above link [read it carefully]: "Using non-public information for making a trade violates transparency, which is the basis of a capital market. Information in a transparent market disseminates in a manner by which all market participants receive it at more or less the same time. Under these conditions, one investor can gain an advantage over another only through acquiring skill in analyzing and interpreting available information. This skill is based on individual merit and awareness. If one person trades with nonpublic information, he or she gains an advantage that is impossible for the rest of the public. This is not only unfair but disruptive to a properly-functioning market: if insider trading were allowed, investors would lose confidence in their disadvantaged position (in comparison to insiders) and would no longer invest."