Fairweather

The idea that America is to blame for all of the worlds ills is, quite simply, liberal guilt bullshit. We are hated in the world of Islam because in their minds, our values represent a threat to theirs. I am always amazed when I hear "progressive-minded" people rush to the defense of Islam; the same religon that relegates women and girls to lives of serfdom/servitude and grows like a cancer in places like Indonesia and The Phillipines. The same religon that seems to be incompatable with the ideals of liberty and democracy. Indeed, The Russians have been trying to keep this disease from spreading northward into their heartland with varying degrees of success for several years now. Now is not a time for our country to show any weakness...or mercy. Let Bin Laden be responsible for bringing the wrath of our country down on those who support him.

Not even one American soldier need die in this endeavor if we have the will to use our ultimate weapon on those who did this to us. Power is the only thing these people understand, and we've shown too much weakness and timidity over the years.

Get that new book by The Mountaineers: "75 Scrambles in the Cascades", and take your kids WITH you...

As a father of a 15 yr old and a 12 year old, and a climber for over 20 years I say you can have the best of both worlds. My 12 year old has been to Muir a couple times since he was 8, and when he was 10 we climbed a minor peak together in the Wrangell Mountains in Alaska. (Donohoe Peak, right under Mount Blackburn...awesome place) Hundreds of miles of hikes, scrambles, and snow climbs. He wants to climb Rainier, but I won't take him until he's 15 or 16. I still climb with others when doing more difficult climbs, but I certainly don't climb at the level I would without my first responsibility. I feel children are a responsibility that should preclude any unreasonable risk-taking. That level is different for everyone, but for me Mckinley or any Himalayan adventures will wait until my kids are in college. (I started my family when I was 23, so I'll still have a "window" to do big things later...I hope.) Why not include the kids at the "lower level" of mountain adventure and do the rest when your responsibilities lessen later on? I know that when I'm freezing my ass off up on Rainier at 2am my thoughts drift to hiking through Grand Park with my children, and I think to myself, "what am I doing here?" As far as Lowe and Hargraves, I feel they failed their primary responsibility which was to their children.

My flag is up...climbing seems so unimportant at a time like this.

Glacier Peak....Sunday and Monday. Sitkum Glacier. 6 1/2 hrs to foot of Sitkum Glacier. 3hrs 45 min to summit. Hiked out same day. Great weather!

pope, I have a question for you...what was Hemlock's "personal trainer's" name? And what did she do to "incentify/entice" him to keep running? Were they pink, or brown? The highlight of the entire movie (in my opinion).:-)

mattp, sounds like you had a good climb! Was there still snow in the big basin below the face? I've looked down the east face from the wide ledge of the normal route many times, but every time I contemplate doing that route I think about standard route climbers kicking loose rocks down the final gully just below the top and hence, down the east face. Was the rock solid on the face? Any problems with rockfall? ...Anyway, it was nice to see an Olympic Mtn. post for the first time in a while. My brother and I are going to do Mount Anderson, Eel Glacier from Hayden Pass a couple weeks from now. I'll be sure to add a trip report here...I don't want "Cascade Climbers" administrators to kill the "Olympic Climbers" section of this site! You do a lot in the Olympics? Love to hear!

Chuck, Did you solo? ! How is the route difficulty above the notch? Easy to protect?

Neri, I disagree with your conclusion that some people have no business in the mountains. I think that in this country (especially!) it is important that all people have the freedom to go wherever/whenever they wish on public lands. It is ironic that some socialist countries allow more freedom than The United States when it comes to climbing and hiking access. I am disgusted however that some on this site would make your mastery of written English an issue when your point was so obviously stated. By the way Matt; I understand GW speaks Spanish even better than English...but at least he isn't out trying to land grab, pardon murderers, get his *##%@ sucked while on the phone talking about troop deployments to Kosovo, nationalizing health care, stealing furniture, and burning cult-freaks out of their commune.

"Endurance" by Lansing is my favorite adventure story. Best mountaineering survival tale is "K2 The Savage Mountain" by Charles and Robert Bates. Incredible what these guys did attempting to save one of their own. I wonder if some of today's big expedition climbers would put themselves on the line like these guys did to save one life. No cell phones, no helicopters, no GPS, no Goretex (!)... just some physically and mentally tough dudes.

Anyone done Ptarmigan Traverse? Can it be done late season by a fast party in 3 days? Looks like it can by the book and map but some firsthand info would be especially helpful. Thanks.

...."what d'ya think?"..."I don't know. What do you think?"..."Well; I d'n know".........................."hmmm, what do you think?" "You think it'll go?"..."I don't know, what do you think?"....

Pope, went to Pierce (then Fort Steilacoom CC) in 81, 82, and 83. (spent too much time climbing, not enough studying) The climbing program was then in its infancy. "Ron Servine" was the director...is he still around? I live near Tacoma so we're probably not too far apart...geographically.

pope, peace. I loved your "big Lou" string. I've met the guy a few times and think he's great! How many of us can do what we love for our entire lives and make a living off of it too? You spend much time on "The Mountain"?

hakioawa, the only mountain I've ever driven to the top of in an air conditioned vehicle was Mauna Kea...and I felt guilty...the rest I climbed...hundreds, if not thousands, frankly. Because one holds views that don't "fit the stereotype" of climbers does't make them a tourist. (although I hold no ill will toward those that are...hell, we'll all get old someday. Should we stay at home and shrivel up?) I can assure you that my primary aim here is to stir debate. I'm tired of all climbers being painted with the same green brush. I'll admit that I have read only "The Monkeywrench Gang". Another of his "works" is called "Hayduke Lives". On the cover is a picture of a hand holding a bundle of TNT with a timing device attached and heavy equipment in the background.....I didn't bother to read it. (Just a question: would blowing up the Glenn Canyon Dam be an act of terrorism?) I won't beat this subject to death. I just wanted to point out the slippery slope that IS environmental terrorism. It is no different from any other form thereof.

Pope, McVeigh is no more a "buddy of mine" than the Unibomber is a buddy of yours. I think you were a bit over the line there. My attacks have been limited to Ed Abbey and his book/ideas. Why are your attacks personal? This is typical of those on the enviro/left. "Shout it down", or as you so perfectly stated:..."better yet,don't write." I guess I did take us on a bizzare detour from the Forest/Demo topic.

Retro, "...characters in his book were terrorists (for the environment)"... as if it is ok since it was "for the environment"?... He IS highly acclaimed indeed; by Earth First and ELF/ALF types who like to go aroung burning down ski resorts, rich folks homes, and university laboratories. His books gave them the formula for the loose asociations that they keep as well as the glorification of this type of terrorism. ....Oh yeah, I forgot...if it is "for the environment" then that makes it OK. Is that right? This is the type of mentality that allows people like McVeigh to blow up a building full of innocent people without remorse, or bomb an airliner out of the sky and harden themselves to the "collateral damage", or spike a tree without concern for the logger (father, son of someone) who could get a cutting chain wrapped around their head. No, I stand by my Edward Abbey analysis...he espoused terrorism as a means to further his agenda. He was a terrorist.

Uncle Tricky, "The late great Abbey"?? Surely you jest! Edward Abbey's "Monkey Wrench Gang" book puts him in a class with Timothy McVeigh and Osama Bin Laden. The man was a terrorist and his book is rightly considered a terrorist handbook. You shouldn't evoke the words of a terrorist to decry an over zealous Forest Service/government. Edward Abbey is not quote-worthy.

I am honestly undecided about the fee demo program. Maintaining access roads and trails does take $$$, and I did buy my $30 pass this year. What I DO have a problem with and refuse to pay are CLIMBING fees such as the "volcano pass" that gets you access to Adams, Baker, Shasta, StHelens. And what do these fees support???..."Climbing Programs". Maybe I can see this on Rainier where they use some of the money to haul the shit buckets down from Muir and Shurman, but where do they get off charging a fee for these other mountains? And all of the $$$ goes to pay for a few geeks in uniforms to make sure you...PAID YOUR FEE! Kind of an extortion racket if you ask me. Also; if I pay my USFS demo fee, then where do they get off trying to close the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Road just because a few enviro-geeks like hiking abandoned road bed? I paid my fee to KEEP IT OPEN! Right?

Winter, As a not-so-grouchy 40 year old climber and supporter of REASONABLE environmental law, I can tell you that "the movement" is going too far in twisting The Wilderness Act and The Endangered Species Act. Lawers are the willing tools they use to lock out the public and to put an agenda/ideaology ahead of public safety and human life. I was once proud to call myself an "environmentalist". That changed in the early to mid 1990's when they turned on me and started locking me out of my favorite areas...not because of environmental damage, but because of subjective ideas like "solitude". I stand by my "intolerant/grouchy" label that I used to describe today's environmentalists. Stop locking climbers and hikers out of the mountains they love and care for and I may one day support you again. Your "movement" has been corrupted.

Don, AMEN! I wish more climbers would see as you do that environmentalists are NOT our best friends. They try to limit our access at every turn and now want to ban fixed anchors. It's ashamed "the movement" has been hijacked by a bunch of lawyers and those who see evil in everything human hands touch. They sure have done some good over the years, but why shut out the very people upon whom you've built your support? Mountain Bikes, Hang gliders, snowmobiles, dogs, horses, skiers, lug soled boots, brightly colored fabric, cell phones, motor drives on cameras,people in general....and CLIMBERS....it seems a vocal few of these enviro's hate just about everything. They act like grouchy old men if you ask me.

RStewbone, I believe Mr Larsen honestly believes he is protecting both The Wilderness Act and "his" mountain. Maybe I'm naieve, but I'm not sure "follow the money" is behind this guy's goofy ideas. Who knows...maybe he's trying to put the "solitude" provisions of The Wilderness Act on trial. (I'd be all for that.) Or maybe he's been intimidated/threatened by the lefties/ELF types that you guys down in Oregon seem to have so many of. (no Oregon dis intended) Anyway, he went back on his word and if he has his way we'll all be locked out. Rest assured, I'll be climbing anyway...what will they do when I refuse to identify my unpermitted ass? Lead me down from Crater rock at gunpoint/in handcuffs? Bring it on. Also, I don't believe this is a Republican/Democrat issue...the fee demo, the lockouts, any of it. Republicans have climbers lumped together with "hikers/environmentalist/WTO protester/lab burner-downers". (They don't mind screwing us out of a few bucks just to piss us off.) As we all know nothing could be further from the truth. Climbers are much more social than the aforementioned groups. Democrats would like to see groups like The Sierra Club running the whole show. Then we could all look foreward to being locked out of virtually all wilderness where humans are deemed "intruders". Basically, we're screwed supporting either party. It's not a "party" issue. The user group who screams the loudest (within the confines of the law) will be heard...climbers just have to scream a lot louder because we generally don't have the support of the enviro's or the $$$$ to BUY our way in. I'm convinced it will come down to ignoring registration/permitting. Maybe a fake set of license plates and a pair of bolt cutters (for gates) will be our only means by which to access "our" mountain wilderness areas.

Wow...Stories like this are terrible. Terrible for his family. I've wanted to climb Fairweather (Northwest Basin Route) for a while now and Gulf Air , to my knowledge is/was the only air taxi available. The previous owner, Mike Ivers(?) was killed dropping off some river rafters a few years ago. The flying in this part of AK just seems a bit more "on the edge" than the Denali operations. It's not the climbing that'd scare me...it would be the flying. Maybe I'll start at Alsek Bay...by boat.

I just received a letter today from Gary Larsen, Forest Supervisor of Mount Hood National Forest. In it he gives notice that he is "withdrawing" his earlier decision to allow continued unlimited use of Mount Hood and adjacent wilderness areas and he will "undertake additional deliberations around the issue of solitude and consistency with the Wilderness Act". Understand that this is the guy who wanted to limit Mount Hood South Climb to 25 individuals per day (permits and fees,no doubt) to preserve "solitude". As this climb sees hundreds of climbers per day during peak spring and summer months, this would cause climbers to lose a valuable "trainig" resource and would force a lot of novices onto more difficult and dangerous routes where they may be placing themselves (and potential rescuers) in danger. Whatever your opinion of The Wilderness Act, I doubt few climbers would argue that they go to Mount Hood to find "solitude", or that they would support a use limit to impose solitude. MY GOD; there's a SKI Resort there! (Solitude is the ONLY issue here...no documented environmental damage has been included in the EAS) The Access Fund thought they had won this fight last year when Mr Larsen issued his first ruling. Now it appears that the "final" decisions of a Forest Manager aren't worth a damn. Write or call: Gary Larsen Forest Supervisor 16400 Champion Way Sandy, OR 97055 (503)668-1700