Fairweather

Winthrop, WA

quote: Originally posted by Chickenhead: Just for clarification, is Olympus generally considered a 4-5 day trip in the winter? Olympus has rarely been climbed in winter. The route above Elk Lake crosses several VERY steep avalanche chutes that would require belayed climbing. As of 1989 it was uncertain if Olympus had EVER been climbed in winter.(with the exception of the helicopter supported researchers at the IGY station) I'm sure it is possible, but the level of hardship required goes beyond what the "average" climber is interested in. I'd love to hear if anyone here has done it or has any info about successful winter ascents. I have often wondered if a route up Tom Creek would be the way to do Olympus in winter.

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: I wanna hear what Fairweather has to say about George W's, " Axis of Evil ." I mean what the fuck is up with that. I think its embarrassing to have a president who comes out with that kind of crap. I have way more respect for one that chases white house interns. OK....who dug up this thread? I'll second Dwayner's and Peter's comments. When our country went to war with Germany and Japan we TARGETED civilians. (140,000 dead in Dresden in TWO nights!; 100,000 dead in Tokyo; dozens of other cities in Germany, Japan, Italy, France, the Balkans; and of course, Hiroshima and Nagasaki) We did not go after only NAZI/Imperial military and political targets. While I DO question the necessity of some of those actions I must point out the contrast between then and now. It seems to me that we have come a long way in a relatively short span of history, and while the civilian death in Afghanistan is regretable it does seem that our military is sincerely trying to avoid these mishaps and kill only those who truly deserve it.....and yes they DO deserve it. As for the "Axis of Evil" speech: North Korea is developing weapons that threaten Alaska and our west coast and they have demonstrated that they will persue this expensive program while perhaps one million of their own starve to death. Iraq and Saddam spend their oil-for-food money on huge palaces and, of course weapons programs while they complain about not being able to provide that same food and medicine for their children. Invade Iraq? No. Just assinate Saddam! (and then deny it) Iran: I'll have to disagree with GW on this one...It seems to me he has given ammo to the hard-liners within that country just as they were starting to lose their grip on power. Kathami is popularly elected and moving toward more political freedom. His job is now more difficult. [ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

I like the way I can tune in to NBC and watch a "live!" broadcast of an Olympic event I watched on Canadian TV (CNBC)several hours earlier. NBC sucks.

Not really related to this strand, but along the vein of "they'll believe anything".... A climbing friend of mine once brought his girlfriend up to Paradise for some snowshoeing. From the road he pointed out to her the gendarme at about 11'500 feet on Success Cleaver. He told her that it was a huge snowman that he and I had built when we attempted the route a month earlier. "...Wow! That's really cool!" she unquestioningly replied.

I support mountain freedom.....BUT I think optional "rescue insurance" is a good idea. (NOT some policy that would obligate anyone to come rescue your butt) I think they do something like this in The Alps....No insurance??? Go ahead and climb! But if you get into trouble, it's gonna' cost you if a professional rescue is required. Also, I was originally against the $150 fee implemented for Mckinley/Denali climbers....but it sounds like they are using the $$$ to support climbers and cover lagitimate programs. The $15 fee at Rainier is also reasonable for Muir and Schurman to cover the cost of waste removal. But why do climbers on other routes have to pay this fee?

quote: Originally posted by JayB: Colorado nowless than a month is the dateWashington my state [ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: JayB ] dry Coloradohigh altitude tumbleweedswhere are the glaciers?

quote: Originally posted by Mike Gauthier: yeah, a few lackeys have gotten "aggressive” over the issue of tire chains this winter. they’ll claim this is nothing new as far as winter operations are concerned, but the truth is, i've never been so hassled about chains in all of my years of living here. just 2 weeks ago in fact, one guy wearing green pants, jacket and tie (why rangers wear ties while working outside is beyond me), tried to prevent me from getting back to my house in longmire, even though i was driving a 4-wd and the road conditions were just fine... some people just LOVE a little power... anyway, the moral of this story is this, if you want to avoid any hassles from the NPS gate keepers, bring tire chains... even if you don't need them, bring them. otherwise, someone may deny you entrance to the park. i’m sorry to hear you got turned around. they did it to a lot of people...with regard to people making it to muir, the answer is yes. a few teams definitely reached muir last week. i'm not sure if anyone summited though (i don't think so.)now for a weather update. it's snowing big time again. at least a foot dumped here in longmire overnight and it's still coming down hard. additionally, it got rather warm last week, so i'd guess that the ice climbing conditions in the nisqually have fallen out of favor... at least temporarily. Mike, Your candid reports and opinions are refreshing! I hope you don't ever get into any trouble with the suits up there for "tellin' it like it is". It's folks like you that restore my faith in "the system" up there. Thanks for all the info you provide here.Love your book! Any info on the Westside Road shuttle plan?

stair machine rolls on sweat black plastic and metal when will this be real?

quote: Originally posted by erik: winter, now you are the same as fairwether with your comments. so repub vs demo is allworhtless anyways.....[/QB].just like most media....i wonder what ted turner thinks???....hmmmm lets turn on the the tv and find out......the media is as crooked as the most crooked politician.....what can i get for myself??? i think all people have had a valid opinion with this subject, but this is also a subject that has many different correct opinions. you just have to wade through the bullshit and pick up the facts that you believe are important and either hold true to your original opinion or maybe even form a new one.[/QB] Eric, I appreciate your comments. However... I have never questioned anyone else's privelege to post here. I find it amusing that those on the "left" side of the issues are usually the first to call for a poster to be "banned", or to "crawl back into their cave", or to "just go away". Their world - without debate - would be a lonely place. Everyone here assumes that I am Republican. While certainly a conservative (secular!), I would like you to understand I do not necessarily view issues as Dem/Rep. My US Rep is a Democrat (Norm Dicks) and I support him every 2 years. I also like Gary Locke a great deal. (Dem Gov of WA for those outside the Evergreen State) I do not support all conservative positions (ie: "choice") but I do support the current Bush administration on most issues including their response to the attacks of 9/11/01. I enjoy challenging environmentalists on issues that are gray. I detest those who blame "corporate America" for ALL of the world's ills. (Although they ARE responsible for SOME. Like it or not, all of us are part of the "corporation".) I detest the way the "solitude" provisions of The Wilderness Act are interpreted by NPS and some USFS sections and used to limit access. I don't question the beliefs of those who are "pacifists" or their good intentions, I just view them as naieve. (If America is so bad, why do so many want to come live here?) I support individualism over collectivism. I know you did not ask for my manifesto, but I think there is some seriously misguided speculation (hysteria, even!) about my views by a few here and I again would like to point out I have not ever suggested anyone leave this debate and "crawl back into their cave". When the weather gets better I'll be back in the mountains and not spending time in front of this screen debating issues that none of us have a great deal of control over.

It was less than 4 miles. No trail, and I do remember getting a fist full of Devils Club along the way. Beautiful little valley above treeline...Constance' east face on the right and a cool looking spire ahead/left. I'm still not sure what it's called.

Zenolith re: Vietnam and the role of the press....If the press back then had reported on communist atrocities like Hue, with the same zeal that they reported American caused atrocities, an ignorant American public may have been able to make a more informed decision about that war. I'm not saying that the "mini-revolution" we saw here at home during the late 60's and early 70's wasn't justified. Many rightfully "woke up" and questioned our government in a way not seen since the Civil War. The Vietnam War did serve to show the Soviets we would not sit idly by while they spread their ideas via armed revolution throughout the world. It is up to history and those who lived then and fought there to decide if it was justified. It is not a question with a simple yes/no answer. However, the fact that the press now seems intent on portraying our side as purposeful butchers of innocent children leads me to the conclusion that the government is correct in limiting their access to war zones. Additionally, I would naturally question tha source of the "stories" you put forth. (Al Jazzera??)

I've been "nagging" the ONP folks about the High Bridge on the West Fork of the Dose for 4 years now. They rebuilt it once and it collapsed under the weight of winter snow. (must have been an NPS engineer who designed it) Now they say they can't rebuild it because it would disturb nesting Spotted Owls in the area. Call me cynical, but do Spotted Owls nest all freakin' year? May through October? The $$$ have been "appropriated" for this project. It now just boils down to NPS obstinance. As for the Dosewallips; The USFS has a better track record than NPS when it comes to "gettin' things done. (EXCEPT down at Gifford Pinchot!) I have confidence that they will want to meet thier "multiple use" mandate in this case. I did Constance from the North Fork of Tunnel Creek back in the 80's, but I don't know if this road is still accessible.

The Olympus XA I referred to earlier is not really a P&S. It is a rangefinder. I have had great results though. It has exposure compensation under the body in the form of a +1.5 switch. I use this switch in bright afternoon snow or water. Otherwise I let the meter (aperature priority) do the work and don't second guess. I saw a good used one a couple months ago at R&K Photo in Auburn. If you're looking for good used gear I recommend this place.

Matt, No problem here with the Secretary Generals vision. As long as it never interferes or tries to supercede "Life, Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness" right here in the ole USA. Brian

Any problems with the current political situation down there? Transportation delays, hostility toward Americans, miscalculations of $$$$, etc?

I've climbed the gullies Lane Peak a few times but I'm curious if anyone has, or know anyone who has actually skied The Zipper or The Fly. I think The Fly would be straightforward. Lovers Lane would be suicidal. But The Zipper is right on the cusp. I'm no "extreme" skier, but anyone out there have info that would satisfy my curiosity?

I still shoot 35mm slides. Mainly Fuji Velvia. You can't beat the color although it may not be as sharp as print film for enlargements. Although an SLR is surely the way to go, you'll take more good shots at critical moments with a good quality point and shoot with a fast and sharp lens. It should also have manual exposure overrides for bright snow conditions. I love my Ricoh GR1. It is a bit pricey, but at 6 oz I've always had it when I needed it. Its 28mm lens is a bit wide for spectacular backgroud shots, but it is great for getting the whole group on the summit. I also have an older Olympus XA. You might be able to find a used one for about $125-$150. Great little camera. Some might disagree with me but I believe with a P&S camera you get what you pay for. I bought a Nikon N80 (SLR) last year and love it! The matrix metering is flawless. A real smooth and "ergonomic" camera. 19 oz body, and 9 oz for a 50mm f1.4 lens....kind of heavy.

quote: Originally posted by To The Top: Fairweather, "Know thy enemy or risk being overrun by them" quote from Sun Tsu (is it 4:20 yet?). Dude get a grip.TTT TTT, that was "Matt" that (according to you) misquoted Sun Tsu. Not I.

Matt, I don't see YOUR last name used here. The fact that I omitted my full name from this site and changed it is of no concern to you. (In fact it is because of hotheads like you that I did so) The fact that you have taken every opportunity to use my full name leads me to believe you somehow feel you are intimidating or "exposing" me. Trust me; you're not. None the less, I believe common courtesy and board etiquette should compel you to respect my choice of "Fairweather".

AlpineK, I will take a look at the two titles you cited if you agree to look at "The Skeptical Environmentalist" by Bjorn Lomborg. This guy is a Dane professor of statistics who set out to flame the USA for not "toeing the environmental line" and for relying on bogus science to exempt itself from global responsibility. Instead, what he found was that much of what we have been told is the truth in the media is not based on pure objective science, but rather at best an incomplete picture of the current state of affairs...and at worst, a litany of politically based untruths. Might I also suggest an oldie; "Environmental Overkill" by the late Dixie Lee Ray. (My favorite Democrat...along with Norm Dicks)

quote: Originally posted by Matt: Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers in the global ecomomy. They see us as greedy and unwilling to share. It is a simple case of the haves and the have nots. ...I just can't let this one go unanswered: Matt,you are an apologist for terrorist murderers. I don't care what your education/background is, what UN agency you've worked for, or what degree(s) you may hold. You need to reconsider this statement. I, for one, am proud to call myself an American. You should also reconsider how you respond to those with whom you disagree. You do your causes and beliefs a great disservice when you come out with the big guns blazing in a personal attack.

quote: Originally posted by Matt: Why don't you crawl back into your cave of ignorance, Brian Rybolt. Why did you decide to hide behind the avatar of "Fairweather"? I am sick of your bullshit popping up all over this site. Here's something to think about: If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following. There would be: 57 Asians8 Africans21 Europeans14 from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south52 would be female, 48 would be male70 would be nonwhite, 30 would be white70 would be non-Christian, 30 would be Christian89 would be hetrosexual, 11 would be homosexual6 people would possess 59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 would be from the U.S.70 would be unable to read50 would suffer from malnutrition1 would have a college education1 would own a computer Brian Rybolt, you are in this village. You have EVERYTHING YOU WANT!!! You are the rich, white Christian hetro educated computer owning American. Why can't you share? We, as Americans, are the richest most successful people on the planet. We have a responsibility to our children to reduce our insatiable consumption of natural resources because we take too much! Our resources are finite! We waste too much! We have a responsibility to help those less fortunate because: (1) we can, (2) it is the right thing to do and (3) because it is in out own self interest to do so-- business operates in a global market. Stop distancing yourself from those people in "poor nations that are overpopulating the planet" and start thinking about them as your neighbor. Try and consider why you should help them. It is called civil society. When you go climbing with a friend and he discovers on the top of the mountain that he forgot his lunch, what do you say? Sorry sucker watch me eat? I'll bet you share it with him. You sound kind of angry. Settle down. By the way; what makes you think I'm white, christian, rich/have everything? Maybe you should look at your own prejudices and bias.

quote: Originally posted by W: Fairweather- When you say "enviro" in the derisive sense of the word, are you referring to the EARTH FIRST! camp of eco-terrorists, and similar kind? Or is it, as I increasingly notice seems to be the case, a term that is used to describe anyone who does not agree 100% with the Cheney...I mean Bush...Administration's "environmental" policy?The way I see it, both sides are equally self-serving. I agree that many of the outspoken environmental organizations are tainted by political propaganda and personal self-serving control trips by liberal do-gooders, who are convinced that their way is the way for all, and will stop at nothing to impose their values upon others through regulations and bureaucratic red tape. On the other hand, since your view seems to mimic that of the current government's, the question I have for you is: Is it any improvement to put the future of our natural recreation places, and the health and cleanliness of our watersheds and our natural resources, in the hands of businesses whose chief aim is growth and profits? Surely you cannot be suggesting that any business, no matter their stated intentions, can put the interest of human betterment and right relationship above all else? That interest may and often does lie within their motives, but most often it is heavily subverted, very secondary to the bottom line of: the business comes first (read: "I" come first). So any action on the part of such a business is bound to be fragmentary- it benefits a group of segregated individuals (of one side or another, it doesn't matter which one), and if it benefits the whole it is often by circumstance and not by chief intent. The problem, then, is not businesses or corporate America, per se; the problem lies in the human trait of "me" and the propagation of the self through the running of businesses by individuals, and in it's interactions with society and the world- and the environment. There are two "I"'s dealing with the environment-keep in mind the following is, for illustration, a look at the extreme end of both: the business (right wing usually) "I" which seeks to profit from the environment, all the while justifying the usage and gross exploitation of the earth in the name of human needs; indeed there are human needs for our resources, but the culture we have created, from the top down, has resulted in one which plunders and recklessly uses these resources like there is no tomorrow- mainly, because there is no day like to today to make money. And it is in response to the base culture which encourages, in almost every facet, immediate gratification and self-promotion and assertion of our values and our lifestyles.The other "I" is the one that claims to "represent" the environment (left wing usually). This person's actions are wholly devoted to coming into conflict with anyone who disagrees with their stated and finalized, unbending stance on what is "right". Extreme activists in particular spend their energy sponsoring exclusory legislation which seeks to shape the actions, or non-actions, and personal freedoms of others through intimidation, stifling regulations, and laws. While some of this legislation does indeed "protect" the environment, the very enaction of it and the means in which "truth" has been imposed has shattered relationships and breeds further conflicts and opposition. These people do not actually do physical harm to the environment, and their actions have in many cases benefitted the environment, but in large part, they are not in fact at all concered with the environment in themselves. Their views are merely a public display of "me", and to ruthlessly propagate them upon the world is the same exact psychological process that the person who is devoted to money, and the art of making it, is undertaking. In all of this, there is regard for neither human relationship nor for the environment. There is merely an ongoing battle of ideologies and egos. So, sorry to digress, but Fairweather, your comments about sour grapes contains merit and absurdity all at once. Merit, in that many who are crying foul are indeed just mad that they are not getting their way. Absurdity, in that it presupposes that any business expansion and "improvements" are being done chiefly with the interest of bettering the lives of all. What I say might sound negative to you. Well, I say that one has to be able to identify false values before the individual, untainted discovery of true values can begin. The unfortunate impact in the meantime is that wild spaces are disappearing, and these places are not something that only a few people need. In fact, the connection with nature is something that a great majority of people have utterly lost, having been raised in the cities and having no conception at all of what undeveloped land looks like. The culture is all we see, and it shapes all that we are, and we are no longer living simply. Having a relationship with nature and recognizing that fundamental need in myself- I have to go away to wild places periodically. It is the only way I know how to prepare for meeting the crazy situations I encounter in the cities. We have developed our land to the exclusion of this relationship. Additionally, the developments in mountain areas are increasingly reflecting the false societal values- the skiing industry certainly does not cater to folks with lower or even middle level incomes. Building golf courses in the mountains? That would be fine, except that golfing also caters and appeals to a certain income level person. Yosemite Park is going out of its way to make it very difficult to go there are not spend any money (i.e.- go climbing there).The Access Fund is one of the few groups that I truly believe in- for they are a group of people who seem to be able to concern themselves with community, to deal with issues in a non-partisan and open minded forum that seeks to listen to understand rather than to assert. Until we can move beyond our own individual personal control trips in our relationships with one another, the environment will merely become an indicating factor of our health as a species. The whole world is basically at war, both abroad and at home. Why should the fact that wild places are disappearing come as any surprise? W, It may surprise you that I agree with about 98% of what you wrote. I am simply tired of hearing that "the sky is falling" and certain groups using this as justification for their social/political agendas. Every religion seems to cry that "the end is near" and environmentalism is no different. Sad thing is, it just isn't true.

Dosewallips Road is washed out at Mile Post 8.1. As the road end is at 14.5 miles, this leaves 6.4 miles to hike each way. This is Olympic National Forest land. (Not NPS as I satated earlier) Hamma Hamma Road, Lake Cushman Road, and of course the East Fork Quinalt are all washed out too, the later is being considered by the NP for PERMANENT closure. This is the Enchanted Valley access and is quite popular. It will add 13 extra miles to a 26 mile r.t. hike. Public comment is being taken, but I doubt considered.