Fairweather

Thomas Friedman, not known as a conservative by any stretch, recently wrote an op-ed about this very subject. In it, he admits we were "misled" to a certain degree but that the greater good was served. I'll try to dig this editorial up later. Sure GW and Co overstated their case. I would do the same thing if I had allies and world opinion standing in the way of what I knew to be a valid cause. Since when do all of you think you're entitled to the whole story?? 1) We can now pull troops out of Saudi Arabia since Iraq is no longer a threat. Wasn't our presence there the "stated cause" Al-Queda used to justify the 9/11 murders? (And yet these terrorists killers continue their blood-thirsty attacks) 2) We have sent a message to the Arab world in the strongest possible terms; "Get your shit together yourselves, or we'll do it for you". 3) Saddam's reign of terror was justification enough to go in. Before you spout off about this one, lets not forget how the UN bungled Rwanda, and let the Serbs slaughter the people of Srebrinica--a UN daclared "safe haven"-- while they stood aside and watched. The UN is inept. In some cases, only power/force will achieve the greater good. 4) The weapons were there to one degreee or another. Where they are now is still up for debate. And to answer your question Kurt; I wasn't attempting to "change the subject". Mattp asked for thoughts re Senator Byrd. The good senator is a cause-celeb' these days for the anti war left. But before they look to him for their revised morality, they should look at his whole morality. Quoting Byrd as the "conscience of the senate" (as many on the left now do) is akin to a right winger quoting Trent Lott re the future of race relations in America. While both are repentant, they have forfeited their right to preach morality to the rest of us forever. Ditto, Bill Clinton and Bill Bennett.

Mattp, I'm not sure Senator Byrd is "all there" these days. If you've listened to some of his more recent ramblings on the senate floor, you know what I'm talking about. There is much speculation re his mental fitness. And let's not forget his past KKK membership and recent use of the "N" word!

Anyone have any thoughts on which route is best for a one day late May/early June climb of Sloan Peak? Bedal Creek or Sloan Peak Trail/Sloan Glacier? Seems like the glacier should be in fair shape at this time of year, so I'm kind of leaning toward Sloan Peak Trail, but I've heard finding the creek crossing can suck up valuable time. Also thinking about a one day of Overcoat Peak-snowfinger or South Arete. Any info on this trip? (Alpine Lakes )

I think we will see the idea of dissolving (or at least restructuring) the UN move from the fringes to the mainstream in short order. I certainly don't want to see this behemoth gain any more power than it already has.

Looks like the UN knew some things they weren't interested in sharing with the world prior to the war. When this piece is combined with other recent stories, it seems that the "oil-for-food" program was nothing more than a cash-cow for Saddam and corrupt UN bureaucrats. Makes me wonder what bribes were paid to the UN by Castro to gain Cuba its current appointment to the Human Rights Commission. The UN is a joke. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/saddam_bribery030520.html

Kind of like when "Slick Willie" blew up that aspirin factory in Sudan on the eve of the Monica scandal, eh? Yep, it's just like that. That was stupid too, and against the best interests of our country. Some would argue (not me) that even if it was an aspirin factory, it may have had a deterrent effect on further terrorist operations. By the way, I don't think it is simply cynicism. Bush is a true scoundrel, whereas Clinton was just a cagey horndog. So it doesn't bother you that he (Clinton/Horndog) sold missile staging technology to the Chineese Army for $200k in campaign contributions? That he turned down Sudan's offer to hand over Osama? That he tried to sieze control of our nations health-care system by holding closed door secret meetings? That he sold pardons to the highest bidder? ...."just a 'horndog'" 'eh? Shall I go on? GW is a model president compared to Clinton.

Kind of like when "Slick Willie" blew up that aspirin factory in Sudan on the eve of the Monica scandal, eh? Your tunnel vision/hypocrisy/misplaced cynicism is showing again Catbird.

I wonder if these ladies care about the reasons we came. Those plastic bags contain the exumed remains of their family members arrested by Saddam.

the summit crater contains more than just white snow careful where you step

I've never been a big fan of clearcuts. I don't like old growth either. I prefer a well managed tree farm with clearly defined borders. I once had a bad experience with Slide Alder. And I once had my hand pecked by a nesting raptor.

I was in Mcarthy a couple years ago and was told by Wrangell Mountain Air that no one will land a plane on Nabesna Glacier after mid-May. Maybe they were full of shit...worth checking out. As for the north ridge...it looks pretty easy, but heavily crevassed and possibly avalanche prone. I've read several accounts in AAJ, some climbers taking only two days from the landing site to round-trip this climb...some waiting out the weather for quite a while longer. Ragardless, this mountain looks awesome.

" Find the one thing".

Thanks for the info! It's cool that you posted it here! Keep the updates coming!!

Joshs says: "Religion seeks to impose moral judgements on behavior and beliefs..." Like I said....sounds like The church of GreenPeace and The Sierra Club cult to me!

Uh-oh...you're not one of those "science is a religion" wackos, are you? Next you'll be telling us the Earth is flat. -Josh The "environmentalism-as-religion" taught in our schools to which I was referring is very far removed from science. If you had kids in public school as I do, you'd understand. I am 100% pro science education. My children must be taught scientific method, evolution, and all of the other things that the religious right kooks often decry as blasphemy. However, "environmentalism" is not currently presented in a scientific fashion in primary public schools. It is presented emotion over reason, and skepticism is scorned, not embraced and explored. It has, in fact, become a religion to many on the left. I stand by my statement.

Worse than that.....he's a left-wing enviro-peacenik-protesting wacko. (And JoshK too!) I can overlook the spelling. By the way....nice pics of Robson, Wishbone Arete! Fucking hardcore. (By my slogging standards, anyhow)

Dissin' someone's spelling abilities is a dangerous game. It often comes back at you.

Still; are you asking me to state my religious beliefs?

That's nice, I could have predicted your response. But the question if about, "Religon." How does that make you feel...huh? "The question if about "religon" ????? I guess I don't understand what you're asking....

1) I haven't yet seen GW posin' on the church steps, bible in hand, like Clinton used to. 2) Environmentalism is the religion of the left.....and it is preached to our children in public schools. 3) I don't hear any outrage from you libs when The Catholic Church or the National Council of Churches...or VP wannabee man-of-God- Libermann gets involved in politics...as long as they agree with your position on a given issue. 4) GW in 2004!

Sad, but true. Da' man's got me down for sure.

Cluck, I've climbed Little T three times: Winter 1983 (from Paradise); July 1990; and late July 2000. Here are a few pics from my last trip. Camp at Meany crest is superb! Who said the rock on Little T is shitty?? Little t summit and my brother, mtnguy01: Feel free to ask if you need more info/pics! Fairweather

And after marriage...

Click attachment to see a Man's life before marriage...

DKemp, Norman Clyde, Let's get together and figure it out! Send me a PM. Brian