Fairweather

Sounded sincere to me. Maybe you should let Stonehead do his own backpedaling.

That is the most idiotic statement I've seen here in a long time. Did your buddy Noam tell you to say that? I believe the label 'tool' has a better home with you.

The story seems to indicate that the mercury pools are from years of mining along the tributaries that feed Lake Roosevelt and the use of mercury/gold extraction methods. Are you saying there is a natural-cause theory that would explain the mercury pools? The story was dated 7/01. I wonder if any more information has come to light since. I've seen stories about the horrible, ongoing mercury contamination and gold mining practices in the Amazon Basin. Imagine the mercury pools that will form downstream in the years to come, and the human toll being paid even now.

"nonplussed" "enchained" Cj, You have an interesting lexicon....or a handy thesaurus.

Hey AlpineK, Did Bill Clinton fill this application out? The hatred I see 'round these parts z-comin' from Neew England lib-ral types like yew. Stuffy lil' bastards.

Good to see you believe in the current trend of Republican revisionism Fairweather! "Only at the end of the 1930’s did a significant group inside the Republican Party take on the isolationists, nominating Wendell L. Willkie (1892-1944) in 1940." There's a good reason it was called "Roosevelt's war"! I haven't tried to portray this issue as Democrat vs Republican. Now you have. The issue here is left versus right. The lines and party associations have changed back and forth over the last 150 years. In fact many great wartime presidents were big government/central control types such as Lincoln and FD Roosevelt. JFK was a great man who stood up to communism and paid with his life. Democrat. Henry Jackson always comes to mind here, as does my congressman, Norm Dicks. Great men. Democrats with balls. Liebermann may have some too. But there aren't too many of 'em around these days. Do you really believe that our government's policy toward Cuba and other communist regimes these past 60 years has been driven by Republicans alone? Perhaps it is you, CJ, that sees things through partisan glass.

Like they did while trying to appease Hitler and keep Roosevelt from 'getting us involved' in Europe? Like they did during Mao's 'cultural revolution'? Like they did throughout the Cold War? Ignoring the crimes of our enemies in central america, the carribean, southeast asia, and all around the globe, while constantly decrying the (admitedly horrible) crimes of our proxies?

Like they did in Iraq?

GOLD = MINING = MONTE CRISTO = MOUNTAINS I'll stand with Catbird this time. The thread is CLEARLY climbing related! And much more interesting than politics!

You have it basically right, but my premise was based more on Peron than Pinochet. Simply look, for example, at the number of dead to date in Colombia at the hands of FARC. Taking action against the leaders of this group at its inception indeed would have saved over 50,000 innocent lives. Again, Peru's Fujimori took decisive action against Shining Path and saved countless lives. Addressing the grievances of these groups would be a good start too, but I can't think of where this has placated any communist insurgency. Communists generally want one thing, to impose their ideology with a religious zeal. What I do find ironic, is that those on the left like you Matt, are so horrified at right wing atrocity while you remain almost completely silent about the exponentially greater crimes and murder comited by socialist/communist systems. Here is a little 'American' gem that I hope stays in the Peruvian hell hole she put herself into: http://www.caretas.com.pe/1394/terror/12-1.jpeg Cheers

Fortunately for the world, Che currently resides in hell.

I HATE that bastard. Lets hope this is the last anniversary for that sorry fuck who has murdered over 20,000 'political' enemies. My heart rate just went from 68 to 110 you trolling canuk.

On to Europa! Sounds like that's where the real water is. Now if we could just find a way past that pesky 186,000 mps we could see the really strange stuff.

Any paraglider pilots out there? A friend and I are thinking about a new hobby this spring up at Tiger Mtn. (As if climbing isn't enough distraction from life's responsibilities!) I'd love to hear your thoughts/suggestions. http://www.tigermountainparagliding.com/

I agree 100% with this portion of your post. Please keep in mind however, that ONP has strict overnight use limits in place at Lake Constance, Flapjack Lakes, All Costal sites, Royal Basin, Seven Lakes Basin, Grand Park, and a couple of other areas I can't think of right now. Whether or not these restrictions were "administrative" or based, once again, on 'solitude', I don't know. I think "preserving the user experience" is often NP/USFS code for solitude enforcement. As for Muir and Schurman, these are within non-wilderness corridors. I can envision pressure groups trying to apply Wilderness Act standards in these areas if they perceive they can make a case and find a lawyer hungry enough to take it on, just as they have tried to do down at Mount Hood. ...But then again, I'm cynical regarding these matters. With all of the flooding of last October, you can also look for environmental groups to be petitioning for permanent closure of washouts. Look for these groups to be using salmon habitat/recovery/ESA as the mechanism with which they can make road repair costs prohibitive. Each year the list of permanent road/access closures gets longer, and unreasonable environmental mitigation is a BIG reason.

Actually, MRNP is 97% designated Wilderness Area and subject to the governing rules of The Wilderness Act. I'm not sure about the % of wilderness designation for ONP and NCNP, but I believe it is close to 100%.

I've been there a couple of times. Skagway is the coolest little town on Earth. Chilkoot Trail is neat, but I haven't done any climbing. The Sawtooth Range/Laughton Glacier area looks like it would have some good (unclimbed??) alpine climbing. I asked a NP ranger about climbing Mount Harding just across Taya Inlet, but he didn't have any info and said he had never heard of anyone climbing it since the first ascent to celebrate President Warren Harding's visit back in the 20's. Should be lots of B/C skiing opportunities in the area too, but I've never been there in winter time. Skagway is a tourist town for sure. Something to consider. My favorite towns are: Skagway, AK Winthrop, WA Homer, AK Skagway is

Are we to believe then, that the avy hazard is 100x greater on the day of the full moon than it is on the last day of a waxing gibbous phase?? Or the first day of the waining?

Who's cosmic string is that hanging from your chin?

Matt, WTA supported closure of the Middle Fork Road. Their position is part of the public record regarding this matter. They actually tried to convince their membership that this road closure would provide for more hiking opportunities! (I guess I don't understand the math.) ALPS sued the USFS to prevent use of chainsaws after the winter of 99' when hundreds of miles of trails were buried beneath fallen trees. When asked about the effect this action would have on hikers and climbers, the spokesman for ALPS reply was 'too bad'. ( I understand ALPS only relented when the local Forest Supervisor pointed out that it was perfectly legal to use hand drills and dynamite to clear the windfalls!) As for user limits in National Parks, most are a direct result of the 'solitude' provisions in The Wilderness Act, or an indirect result of lawsuit pressure brought by environmental groups under this arbitrary concept. The Wilderness Society has even threatened to sue the Mt Hood National Forest for their failure to impose a 25 climber per day limit on Mt Hood. Limits at Mount St Helens are not for resource protection, but rather to maintain an ill-defined 'experience' for the user. I agree however, that climbers need to get organized and speak up for access. The Access Fund is, in my opinion, the only group that speaks for true balance in this regard.

Those issues aside, and from a purely selfish point, the only 'interest groups' that I see limiting, or attempting to limit my access to mountain areas, are so-called environmental organizations like ALPS, Sound-to-Mountains Greenway, WTA, Wilderness Society, etc. This Alpental issue is, in fact, a non-issue IMHO. The industries you cite above represent a seperate debate. BTW, my original post was just a general reply. It was not directed at you personally, I just hit the 'reply' link to advance the thread.

Just a few personal observations: A I don't see the big deal with an extra 5 minutes to access the 'normal' start. Parking at the lower lot is the standard start for Mt Snoqualmie/Cave Ridge. Do you all cry 'foul' when access is denied for avalanche control there? B Some of my favorite access roads: Westside Road, Carbon River (MRNP), and, now The Middle Fork are/will soon be closed. These closures are much more than a FIVE MINUTE inconvenience! It's funny how 'access' only becomes an issue when it comes home to your favorite spot(s). I'm having a hard time finding sympathy for the complaints posted here. C I'm seriously not trying to sound insensitive here, but I can't help but note that this controversy was partly precipitated by a snowshoe party that decided to head up the valley during what were reported as (at least)'high' avalanche conditions. Sometimes our (questionable?) actions have consequences beyond the risks we are willing to accept at the personal level. We should consider how the ultimate failure reflects on the sport and how it effects all of those involved, such as rescuers/searchers, family (of course), and other back country enthusiasts.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man Commits Suicide to Escape Nagging Wife DAR ES SALAAM, Tanzania (Reuters) - A Tanzanian man killed himself by drinking a chemical used in cattle dips, leaving a suicide note saying it was to escape a nagging wife, police said on Wednesday. The body of the 32-year-old was found in the commercial capital Dar es Salaam on Sunday with the suicide note and a glass containing traces of the chemical, used for killing insects on livestock, regional police commissioner Alfred Tibaigana told Reuters. "I've decided to end my life," Tibaigana quoted the suicide note as saying. "I am fed up with the constant nagging of my first wife." Police did not have any further details about the man's death in the east African country, where polygamy is common.