Cpt.Caveman

What's the odds on the bet that both you foos voted for bush anway. Now that is funny

Yes Tim it does take extra time to go all the way to Prusik and back around or on those other hikes in too. If it's your sole destination it's another one of those pick your poison games I think when we climbed it, we had a 3 day weekend trip and managed the South Face (beckey) route of Prusik after the approach day. The next day was the really easy and nice hike to Toketie , past the lakes you mention and climbed the wall and descending the smoke a thai drainage via headlamp. Certainly we are not the fittest or quickest so someone more gung ho could make eaiser work of it. If you want some adventure you'll probably get what you were looking for on this one. Nice views from 3 musketeers ridge , which is where the wall tops out on...

Danimal and I swapped pitches up Toketie Wall 2 falls ago. It's about 7-8 pitches if you take it all the way from the buttress toe for the '76 route. Expect lichen, dirt and general mountain climbing type of shit. The descent was about 5 minutes down easy slopes on the left side of the wall to the lake. We made our approach after climbing Prusik Peak by passing by the Mole and stuff then after our climb of the wall down the Toketie drainage. III 5.9 Dirt, pro to 3 inches Make sure you trundle some shit while you are up there.

Nothing south facing really. Everything else looked better... Thinking about something up in British Columbia soon... Maybe if I can get some others to go... ..

What line was to poach I'm not greedy anyway. There was plenty of good snow everywhere... Lots of people on Herman too.

Table mountain snow was perfect. Lots of people but fresh runs were to be had for anyone desiring so. My camera froze up so I didnt get any action shots. Not that I was going to post any here anyway. I bet it's still good today too.

My gay lover was yo mamma ho

There are a lot of misconceptions on your part Caveman. First and foremost, most guides would love to guide things like Ptarmigan Ridge or Liberty Ridge. Not only that, they would not be particularly hard trips to sell. Many clients are not "gapers." In fact, there is a percentage that are high end. Unfortunately, these routes will not be open to guides unless the Park Service changes their policies... Which it looks like might happen based on the article which started this thread. In Washington State, the North Ridge of Stuart, the Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, the North Ridge of Mt. Baker, the Coleman Headwall on Mt. Baker, Frostbite Ridge on Glacier, and even routes like the East Buttress Direct on South Early Winter Spire are guided many times every year. These are not necessarily the hardest routes in the state, but they are moderately difficult and are not for those whom you are calling "gapers." Were the Willis Wall in Chamonix, it would definately be guided. Guides have a slightly different mindset than the average climber. They take pride in getting people up moderately hard climbs safely. Most guides receive a great deal of training in order to bring people up into the mountians safely. There are thousands of people being guided in Washington State every summer. More likely than not, you can only come up with one or two incidents involving clients or guides getting hurt in this state off the top of your head. The whole idea that guides are in some way unsafe and get people hurt on a regular basis is ludicrous. On top of that, the idea that guides are not in shape and cannot climb hard is also a myth. Outside of the state, the Cassin Ridge on Denali has been guided. The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome are guided in Yosemite all the time. The Black Ice Couloir in the Tetons is guided. Hard ice and rock routes around the country are guided every day... When knocking guides and saying that they're gapers or out of shape, think about people like Steve House, Alan Kearney, Jim Nelson, Topher Donahue, Crag Luebben, Miles Smart, Doug Robinson, and all the others you're knocking. Every guide I know is looking for challenging guiding. They are looking for things that engage both them and their clients. Your analysis of the guiding scene in America is not only ignorant, it's simply not based in reality. Jason I never said they were not guided. I also never said all clients were gapers. My comments were made to spark some debate thought and bullshit. You have included some of all but don't attack me with your know it all self righteous bullshit as if I am saying anything totally serious here. What a putz

Totally, it's way beyond war in Iraq or the economy. Trask you should on that list too for asking that question.

Dave Schuldt Attitude Headmasterjon Dr. Fag A-homo Off White Erik and many more that I will add later today when I have time. All of the above are dingleberry eaters

Just buy Camp. Cheaper anyways....

who said I was implying my office ?

http://webcambiglook.com/wa.html

Wild things ice sac.

You missed the point there genius

If Dave "Dingleberry swallower" Schuldt cant ride his bike there he wont show

Did anyone hear about the climbers yet? As usual I'm not going to bother reading all the stuff here. Hey news folks- Face it, a majority of you people can't report climbing incidents to save your ass. But I guess it must be good enough to pay the bills and make people look like trash etc. Nobody likes that sort of shit. If you are going to report stuff get it right. And how come EVERY SINGLE CLIMBER is 'experienced' that you fuckers report on? If I can walk up to camp muir I guess I would be experienced And another note- Most people don't give a fuck if you know how to climb and report like shit still when concerning climbing related topics. It's viewed as simply raking in the dough for your news machine that is all fucked up. Sometimes I resent the news people more than cops that are too lazy to hunt real criminals.

Let the RMI guides make money. IF some guides want to make real money they'd call on gaper clients and try out shit like Liberty Ridge, Mowich Face, Ptarmigan Ridge and other shit. Then we'd all have more entertainment with the news folks too But the reality *seems* to be that most guides wouldn't want to guide those routes for various reasons. My guess is fitness of the clients AND the guides fitness as well as many other things If it was Chominix would the Willis Wall be guided every other week or what

He must like to ring his own dingleberries

get back with the subject. Soldiers and criminals are not the same. Once in a while there are criminals that pose as soldiers but they have no honor and should never be considered the same. It's going to be kill kill kill you if some collaboration with terrorists or some new wave hitler wants to lob something over here say from Korea, Irag or other opressive regime that takes up some death weapons next. Poeple that think the diplomacy of NO DIPLOMACY of the clinton area works are really just fools or fooling themselves into a shit splattered reality.

Some planned actions JUST like this bring out the punks whether or not they are part of the protest. I'm not saying it's going to happen but it does happen. A couple hundred people fuck it up for the rest and then we might as well just not let some marches take place when the final result is tearing up the city no matter who is responsible. There will always be animosity when a march or protest takes place. Grow the fuck up matt because you know as well as I do when groups gather for political reasons there IS some animosity. Just stay the fuck out of the street or I'll spit on you as I drive by. just like war forces some soliders to rape and steal from the enemies and justify it??? erik my guess is you would fold under fire so quit talking like you know about it. Your a hippy pud that doesnt have the heart to hurt people and you belong in the bomb makers dept for tthe faint of heart or as a medic... As far as war criminals - fucking execute or persecute them to the fullest if they are guilty. war crimes are way off subject. get back in the hippy van

That's the easiest part of that climb...

Some planned actions JUST like this bring out the punks whether or not they are part of the protest. I'm not saying it's going to happen but it does happen. A couple hundred people fuck it up for the rest and then we might as well just not let some marches take place when the final result is tearing up the city no matter who is responsible. There will always be animosity when a march or protest takes place. Grow the fuck up matt because you know as well as I do when groups gather for political reasons there IS some animosity. Just stay the fuck out of the street or I'll spit on you as I drive by.

I dont really care iain your argument is bunk and bogus self righteous crap. admit it. I have no problems with protests that are not violent. But your comments matt are well flawed to say the least.

Nice pun. I didn't make any argument to begin with. I'm suggesting don't live 25 miles away from a place you have to go every day. Not that I want to bother with this anymore since your badass sig says it all Yes you can shut up now oh righteous one.